Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Use this section to discuss "standard" Baader/Coronado/ Lunt SolarView/ Daystar, etc… filters, cameras and scopes. No mods, just questions/ answers and reviews.
User avatar
Montana
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 26474
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:25 pm
Location: Cheshire, UK
Has thanked: 5689 times
Been thanked: 2538 times

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by Montana »

I use the Baader ceramic wedge on a TEC140 for hours with no problem (no front ERF) and I know that Luca does the same on his TEC180 with no problems.

Alexandra


RKBerta
Oh, I get it now!
Oh, I get it now!
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:08 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by RKBerta »

Since I replied to this post....I have used my BAADER cool Hershel Wedge on my 6" triplet APO refractor without any ERF. No issues at all....the tube doesn't heat up and the ceramic is seperated from the diagonal body and with vent holes. After several minutes the diagonal and back is just slightly warm....no scary hot components. BAADER says it is good for up to 8" aperture with no ERF. Havne't tried that yet due to Covid but our club has a 8" D&G achromat refactor so may give it a try. I will say the resolution and contrast with the 6" and the BAADER is amazing. Compared to viewing the same day with my 80mm APO tripet reafractor (both refractors are Officina Stellare) and the same BAADER solar wedge and same eyepieces....the 6" reveals even finer detail...which it should.
If I had a way to insert my thermo probe into the refractors it would answer a lot of questions. short of drilling holes in expensive gear that isn't practical ;-) For time being I just use the "palm" test.
As far as tube currents causing seeing issues....I haven't seen that at all even under very high magification. Just like night time...it helps to let the scope and gear reach ambient temperature. Note that my BAADER is the current model and not the older version which evidently wasn't as efficient at dealing with the heat evidently.

By the way....the ceramic on the BAADER is polarized. If you put an additional polarizing filter on the eyepiece (never on the scope side of the diaognal), you can rotate that polarizer to give variable ND which is really handy for bringing out the most detail.


80mm Officina Stellare APO triplet, 110mm f10 home made achromat refractor, 152mm Officina Stellare APO triplet.
AP 900 and 1100 mounts, Iotron MINI Tower Pro ALT/AZ mount
Lunt 60mm Ha single stack, Coronado 60mm Ha single stack with BF 30
Day Star Quark Chromosphere
Player One Neptune mono with 178 chip, 256mm DDR, tilt plane.

JPL Solar System Ambassador
Michigan Scout observatory manager
RKBerta
Oh, I get it now!
Oh, I get it now!
Posts: 45
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 7:08 pm
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 35 times

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by RKBerta »

The main reason I went with BAADER vs. Lunt....I liked the click lock and it had setup to allow Tmount adaptor without issues of insufficient in-focus. It came with a few ND filters to match to different aperture scopes also. I bought it early 2017 and after a lot of use....it is still like new and no issues. Ha is my favorite but white light is wonderful too....although I am still waiting for more larger sun spots to show ;-)


80mm Officina Stellare APO triplet, 110mm f10 home made achromat refractor, 152mm Officina Stellare APO triplet.
AP 900 and 1100 mounts, Iotron MINI Tower Pro ALT/AZ mount
Lunt 60mm Ha single stack, Coronado 60mm Ha single stack with BF 30
Day Star Quark Chromosphere
Player One Neptune mono with 178 chip, 256mm DDR, tilt plane.

JPL Solar System Ambassador
Michigan Scout observatory manager
christian viladrich
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: France
Been thanked: 621 times
Contact:

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by christian viladrich »

RKBerta wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:58 pm Sounds like a couple of you are using your BAADER ceramic with 6" and larger scopes up to the 8" max that BAADER states in their user manual. Earlier I was warned by some here that my 6" triplet APO really should have a full aperture ERF. I noted that one of you with the TAK 150 TOA evidently doesn't use a ERF. Would like some more comments on that. If the ERF is not needed that would be great but for now I am keeping it at 110 max aperture.
I have been using a Baader solar wedge with my TOA 150 for more than 10 years. There is no problem at all.

As explained above, we also used a home-made solar wedge on a 435 mm aperture refractor. There is no problem at all. One issue is that the free aperture of the wedge should be large enough compared to the solar disk. This means that we used a 4" solar wedge on the 435 mm refractor.
The other issue is how you deal with the unwanted 95% light passing through the prism. The ceramic plate is no longer a valid solution for such large aperture.


Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
christian viladrich
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: France
Been thanked: 621 times
Contact:

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by christian viladrich »

RKBerta wrote: Sun Jul 11, 2021 8:39 pm
The photo package I got includes a few ND filters to match to different apertures but a much more useful trick is to get a polarized ND filter and place on the EP. Since the BAADER is already polarized, by rotating that second filter by rotating the EP you can fine tune the ND over a wide range and get it to your optimum contrast/brightness point.
I am not completely sure this is a good/safe solution for visual observation. A lot of polarizing filters are transparent to IR light :
http://astrosurf.com/viladrich/astro/in ... ing-CV.JPG


Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
christian viladrich
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1058
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2015 4:46 pm
Location: France
Been thanked: 621 times
Contact:

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by christian viladrich »

RKBerta wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 7:57 pm Note that my BAADER is the current model and not the older version which evidently wasn't as efficient at dealing with the heat evidently.
As a matter of fact, this is the opposite. The older Baader solar wedge (the one without the ceramic) was better at dealing the the heat, since the 95% of unwanting light was passing though the wedge. So the wedge remains cold.

In the current version (the one with the ceramic), some part of the heat is absorbed by the ceramic which increased its temperature. But, the clear benefit of this version is safety since the 95% unwanted light is blocked by the ceramic.


Christian Viladrich
Co-author of "Planetary Astronomy"
http://planetary-astronomy.com/
Editor of "Solar Astronomy"
http://www.astronomiesolaire.com/
User avatar
Rusted
Almost There...
Almost There...
Posts: 1009
Joined: Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:00 am
Has thanked: 2757 times
Been thanked: 919 times
Contact:

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by Rusted »

The "palm test" is hardly accurate and could cause serious burns if wrongly applied. Try one of the remote reading, laser guided, infra-red thermometers instead. They are shaped like a simple, plastic pistol and cost very little these days. As little as £10/$15 equivalent. No doubt the price has come down further due to the global demand for reading forehead temperatures. Mine is one of my favourite toys and cost about £25 equivalent a couple of years ago. I like to monitor building surfaces and equipment to reduce potential thermal issues when imaging.


http://fullerscopes.blogspot.dk/

Baader 160mm D-ERF, iStar 150/10 H-alpha, PST etalon with rubber band tilter, Baader 35nm H-a, Beloptik KG3, Lunt B1200S2, Assorted T-S GPCs, ZWO ASI174.
EGRAY_OBSERVATORY
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Way More Fun to Share It!!
Posts: 4695
Joined: Mon May 18, 2020 4:45 pm
Location: Essex, S.E.England
Been thanked: 3022 times

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

I'd like to back-up Chris's idea of using an Infra-Red thermometer as he mentions.

I use one daily for COVID checks indoors and one in the observatory for what requirement including can check the HW etc.
Yes they are very cheap and certainly a useful tool to keep as handy.

Terry


SimonM
Ohhhhhh My!
Ohhhhhh My!
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2020 1:01 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 42 times

Re: Solar Wedges, any data out there?

Post by SimonM »

Looking at the Wedge pointing down - that seems like a good idea. For visual and imaging, it makes sense to have it pointing up. I can see an advantage if I was to "switch out" the supplied ND and/or Solar Continuum filter and use the additional photographic versions (supplied with my Baader Wedge but so far- not used) e.g. to emphasize that an EP can't be used when the 3.0ND is removed e.g. to use 1.8ND + 0.9ND for imaging etc.

Last January, before getting the Baader Wedge, I was a bit wary of using anything to view the sun especially an EP. I emailed BP for some reassurance (see below). I was hoping that they had a spectrum for the Wedge as it's supplied - seems not.
Dear Simon,

thank you for the comments on our products. Here are the answers to your questions in short in context:

1. Is there a recognized “Standard” for the attenuation of solar radiation which is recognized as being safe for visual use?
2. My understanding is that the Baader Solar Prism is safe to use without an additional UV/IR cut filter. Is that because the design of the Baader Solar Continuum filter changed (the filter is now provided in a slim filter mount) that additionally has almost no out of band transmission of UV/IR?

We would not be able to sell the product for a decade without complying with safety standards. The Herschel Wedge V means "visual", which means it's recommended for visual use. If you want to be super safe then you can add a UV/IR blocker even if generations of astronomers observed with Herschel Wedges without UV/IR blocker - without damaging their eyes

3. Using the Solar Prism as supplied, it has the prism, Baader Solar Continuum filter, and Baader ND 3.0 filter. Is there a chart for the entire Solar Prism showing the attenuation across all wavelengths?

We are sorry we do not offer such a chart

4. The Prism is specified for refractors up to 6” in Aperture. I have a SkyWatcher refractor which has a 100mm aperture. It is f/5.5 and so is considered “fast” compared to a more usual design at f/7. Can I assume that the f/5.5 does not affect the operation of the Solar Prism e.g. the primary operation is to attenuate the light from an aperture e.g. 100mm without concern for the focal ratio - the heat/light “in" relates only to the aperture size?

We would not give the advice (up to 8") on our website if it would not have been tested properly. This Means, if the wedge is recommended for 8" it can be used for 6" without any problem. Because it's logical that it's a matter of the aperture and not about the focal length how much energy comes into focus.

Herschel Wedges are well known to be used for decades without problems as one of the safest methods for solar observation. Nevertheless, you are questioning the technical descriptions, the advice and the details on our website for a product that we sell for more than 10 years in the same kind. We cannot urge somebody to believe us or to trust us - but we ask for your understanding that we cannot discuss every information on our website in every depth. If you still fear using the Herschel wedge it's understandable. Many people fear to look through a telescope to the sun, even with proven filters, and then our advice can only be: If someone is not comfortable with something it is s better not to do it.

Best regards,
Michael Risch
BAADER PLANETARIUM GMBH


Post Reply