IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

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IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

Hi All, I have a Lunt 60mm when I try to tune the presser tuner going in or out very slowly all I get is a round clear disc, can the scope be to cold at 6C do I need to heat the presser tuner and the blocking filter with dew heater strips.

peter


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

No Peter - the scope's temperature is not an issue, so no need for heater-straps etc.
(in fact heaters are more likely to cause problems in the UK at least).

As suggested previously adjust the acquisition times down on your image-download program until you see surface detail..

But first as advised to you, use an eyepiece into the BlockingFilter first and when focused on the Sun's disk edge/limb, then use the pressure-tuner to see whether you can see surface-detail-granulation(porridge) or the prominences around the disk.

NEVER USE AN EYE-PIECE OR CAMERA INTO THE SCOPES DRAW-TUBE, ONLY THROUGH THE BLOCKING-FILTER...

To see what is available to see on the Sun at the same time as you want to use the Ha scope, go to the SDO website - as previously advised.
The Sun is fairly quiet today, so other than prominences, not too much to easily see...

Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

Hi Terry, I have don all you have suggested, have don both eye and adjust image in sharp capture, reason I was suggesting a dew heater, sum suggest blocking filter kneads to be over 10C.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

In very cold climates such as Canada where temps are often -10-degsC, that might be the case, but today, the temp even where you are, will not require any external-heating devices for any solar-scope.

For night-time imaging/Deep Sky/Planetary, where long-exposure-times may be required, then it is likely that due-heaters etc., may be required.

If Lunt had found that a heater was required, they would either have supplied one or recommended one to be used, with any technical details such as temperatures to use.

Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by JochenM »

Hi Peter

As Terry already indicated, the temperature shouldn't be an issue here.

So if I understand correctly, you basically get a blank disk (no detail whatsoever) showing up on the screen? If you have a screen capture available to share, that might help.

I'm going to assume that focus, exposure etc is all fine. Have you tried "bleeding" the pressure tuner? Basically unscrew it up until the point where it's almost coming off the threads (but not completely!). You might hear the pressure equalizing as air escapes. After, slowly start screwing back in and see if you can get on band.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

Yes JochenM i have tried that a few times but got no were, sorry don't have a capture.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks Jochen for your input, which of course makes sense. I don't myself have a pressure-tuner, but know what it does.

I am also talking directly with Peter by Email, to try and get this and previous issues sorted, so am hopefully being able to talk Peter through on a telephone, as other than the PT we have identical-systems available.

I'm sure that an over-exposure issue is present with the controls of SharpCap...

Regards
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by marktownley »

Can you see proms Peter?


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Peter,

I have a pressure tuned Lunt 60. As has been said, unscrew the tuning knob until you hear air entering/leaving the chamber, then screw it all the way in and start tuning by unscrewing it slowly. You should see surface details coming into view. If the image is too bright, reduce the exposure.

I use mine in all weather conditions when the sun is out, hot or cold, without issue.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

no I carnet see any thing at all Mark.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by GUS »

Try heating the blocking filter.It should help. Lunt recognises this issue that's why they made a dedicated heater for the BF. There have been numerous posts on CN and this forum regarding this issue.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks GUS but that is not known to be the problem and as we know from our temperatures in the U.K., where Peter lives, is not an ideal solution as temperatures here are very suitable for this type of Ha equipment.

Until other simpler and more likely exposures-settings - are confirmed to be the cause or otherwise.

After that time - (which will be monitored and advised over the telephone using an identical-system from my observatory at the same time), an assessment of the BF and any other problem will be advised to Peter, as necessary.

I understand from Peter - that his Son is possibly going to be there to assist too, so that may well help...

Cheers
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by marktownley »

My money is either an O-ring has failed, or the allen stud under the cap at the end of the pressure tuner handle has worked loose causing a leak.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks Mark for that useful suggestion, which could be an answer, but will await the outcome when Peter does the initial-tuning with an EP, to assess that possible situation.

He only acquired the scope late last year, so ideally it should be as good as new, but of course (continually) unscrewing the PT might have allowed for your suggestion. I will certainly bear that in mind during the first-phase of testing with an EP...

Personally, as my own non-PT Lunt-60 Ha scope of ten-years old, works perfectly well, adding a PT just makes for something else to go wrong - in my view and from what I have read previously. You and I have discussed that scenario before with both your Canal Boat and my experiences with my car and aeroplanes too...

Hope you get to take your well-earned break on your 'boat' again soon and the weather is good too - Mark...

Regards
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by GUS »

Terry, I lose detail in both my lunt BF's below 10 degrees celcius, a dew heater brings them back on band. I see no detail on the disc or proms before heating it, but plenty once warmed up. It could be an O ring issue, it could also be a BF issue. I also borrowed another BF from the local astro store where I purchased the scope from and it had the same issue below about 10 deg C. Using a Coronado BF filter with the Lunt scopes I don't have that issue, they work down to at least -5 deg C ( the lowest temps I get in my area) without any issue. Might not be the problem, but putting it out there that this is a known issue below 10 deg C.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by Carbon60 »

Equalising the pressure has to be the starting point if this hasn’t already been done. As our ambient air pressure changes with passing weather systems the chamber pressure must be reset if it goes outside the range that can be adjusted and compensated for on the threads. Who knows what the pressure was when the module was originally assembled? Once this has been done, you’ll know you’re in the right place to start investigating whether it is a tuning issue, or not.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by marktownley »

Is the scope stored outside in an obs Peter?


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

No it is in the house, just put a new set of O-rings in now it holds pressure OK for days old rings it was minutes, screw on end of piston is not loose I filled hole with grease.

peter


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks Gus for your input, which still could be useful, but in Peters' location in the U.K., is unlikely to be suffering from such temps below 10-degsC when he is observing/imaging and in any case, although recent temps have been below that level, the Sun on the instrument would almost certainly
keep the instrument above that level (even well above that level)..

Lunt themselves confirm that temp at a or below freezing, is where the need for a heater is likely or even mandatory, so knowing of the quality and history of Lunt, I would more likely believe them, but who knows at present, it could be another issue and even the BF itself, but other methods of testing need be undertaken first before coming to a conclusion and recommendations...

I do listen to you Gus, but Peter and I - need time and the Sun to perform the correct setting-up procedure, rather than guessing...

Thank you again
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by krakatoa1883 »

In cold weather the o-rings shrink and become stiff therefore the PT system becomes less efficient, the BF also doesn't work properly. I always see this happening on my Lunt scope which performs best in mild and warm weather.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thank you Stu for your correct comments and as a pilot I have the need to well-know about air-pressure..

I will not be responding to further posts here on this issue, as too time-consuming at present and knowing that an easy-way of diagnosing the problem and rectifying it for Peter's benefit - is the simplest way forward, which Peter and I have already agreed...

Finally thank you Raf for your feedback, with my only reply being, what does cold/mild/warm weather really mean ??

Regards to all
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by marktownley »

Glad it's sorted Peter!


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by krakatoa1883 »

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:45 amwhat does cold/mild/warm weather really mean ??
In my location at 45°N and 120m a.s.l. "cold" means 5°C or lower, I actually avoid using the scope when air is close to 0°C, I prefer to use a Quark wrapped in a dew heater instead.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by p1taylor »

I sorted the pressure tuner/o-rings before making my first post, I was just confirming that this was not the issue.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Well-good to now-know that we have sorted your issues with using SharpCap by adjusting the Exposure-times down for the Ha captures Peter.

Now its' "Practice Makes Perfect" time.

Hopefully you will be able to post some images on Solarchat, in due course.

Regards
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by KMH »

GUS wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 5:03 am Terry, I lose detail in both my lunt BF's below 10 degrees celcius, a dew heater brings them back on band. I see no detail on the disc or proms before heating it, but plenty once warmed up. It could be an O ring issue, it could also be a BF issue. I also borrowed another BF from the local astro store where I purchased the scope from and it had the same issue below about 10 deg C. Using a Coronado BF filter with the Lunt scopes I don't have that issue, they work down to at least -5 deg C ( the lowest temps I get in my area) without any issue. Might not be the problem, but putting it out there that this is a known issue below 10 deg C.
This may not be an issue in the present case. But I would note just for general forum interest that my experience is the same as Gus reported - dramatic loss of contrast/detail for my Lunt below roughly 8-10C. I do go through a maximum in contrast as I increase pressure, at about the usual setting, the contrast is just very low. Using a heater does correct the issue.
Kevin


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

All noted Kevin and thanks.

Peter's initial-issue for this particular post - was only due to very-different SharpCap exposure-settings, which were talked through via a telephone link-up.

There are other issues which he and I are discussing, but with an image sent to me, he is well on the way to being able to produce some excellent images in due course. (Peter is already experienced in Deep Sky imaging).

Hopefully when all snags are sorted, Peter will be able to post some images on SolarChat himself...

Thanks again for all the feedbacks here.

Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by KMH »

Glad it's sorted! Especially now that there are some nice features to image.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Indeed Kevin, that is correct and suddenly changing too (as of tonight into Sunday)...

Peter is a tad limited on time at present and hopes to try imaging again in a couple of weeks time, so hopefully we will get to see how he has faired...

Cheers
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I have read that the Lunt blockers are more affected by colder temperatures than those by Coronado. It may not be your pressure tuners at all but the filters. I have used my Coronado BF-15 blocking filters down to 23F ( -5 C ) with no issues. The dew heater may be heating up the blockers enough for them to work. Lunt actually makes a blocking filter heater.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks James.
I have read-up on the Lunt issue of possible use of their BF heater, but clearly this was not an issue of Peter's set-up, which is the same as mine and I recognised the issue from the outset, as he was using settings in SharpCap, which were not correct for Solar-imaging. In fact the exposure-speeds were far too high, giving him a white disk, rather than initially looking for a surface-detail/granulation/porridge view.

Even though as recommended previously to just use an EP which had the correct result expected, for changing to the ZWO ASI-178MM camera, those settings need to be adjusted.

This was achieved by an arranged telephone tutoring, where notes were taken of the near-correct settings, whilst my own Ha scope was viewing the Sun and this had the desired effect.

The two attached images, show the first results, albeit the Surface detail image does show "dust-bunnies" which he is now aware of...

I know that in a couple of weeks, Peter will restart some more imaging and we will be discussing any further issues - as needed...

As Peter has already achieved some excellent Deep Sky imaging, there is of course no real-similarity in the programs and exposure-times etc., etc., than for Solar-imaging...

Cheers
Terry
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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by MapleRidge »

Hi all...

I wanted to comment on the temperature and heater strips applied to the blocker.

I wonder if it is more a case that this is a case by case issue for those who loose contrast in the cold? I seem to be the craziest for working in the cold, but I have never had any issue with the Ha or CaK blockers in the cold. Tuning on the Ha needs to be tweaked as the air temps change so much from day to day, but I have not had to heat the blockers. Any of the post I have between Nov/Dec though April most years have me starting with a cold observatory bound scope.

Operating between -26C to +36C I think I'm the one who needs temperature mods :lol:

Just my experiences on the subject.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hello Brian,
Many thanks for your input, which I will pass-on to Peter, as clearly he was being misled into believing that a heater was required for his blocking-filter. :girl:

In fact I even quoted to Peter that possibly in your neck of the woods in Canada, a B.F.heater might be required, but clearly that was not the case either - from what you say. :bow

The location that Peter lives would not normally get any temperatures much below freezing-point for any significant time and usually that would be during the night. In any case, like me, he would not really want to observe/image in temps below about +10C, as both of us are not young pups !! :(
In my case, about the only thing I would normally do in such lower temperatures, is to operate my OCULUS All-Sky-Camera from within the extreme-comfort of my observatory - c/w heating, TV, radio-music, drinks and fodder !!! I even can sleep there too - whilst the Oculus and computer is doing its' thing, which happened earlier this week... :oops:
I actually captured a meteorite streak across our skies heading towards the N.W. as attached image shows... :movie

Right at the beginning of Peter's post, as his gear is more or less identical to mine, I recognized the problem and stuck with that - which proved correct, even though I was well aware of Lunt being able to provide a heater, but they themselves referred to temperatures from freezing and below for that... Brrrr!!! I'll let your good-self experience those temps Brian... :lol: :cat

Also as Peter was keeping the scope indoors and then when trying it out in his observatory, the Sun alone would/could or should be able to deal with a temperature as low as said previously. Obviously there would be little or no reason to have the scope - except to point it at the Sun for any Solar-imaging...!! :hamster:

Thanks again Brian for your excellent feedback..

Regards
Terry
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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by David Fox »

Terry,
Quick sidebar here?
Do you ever had issues with connection dropping between the O and the PC?
I'm constantly waking up to minimum frame captures as the usb connection has been interrupted during the night. I'm using Surface / USB2 repeater.
David


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by MapleRidge »

Terry...

I was just showing my experience and the stability in the cold without the heaters.

I do believe others have found they helped, just a matter of many factors that can influence the system as a whole.

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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thank you for your question David.
I imagine the ""O" refers to the Oculus camera and if so, the answer is no and even after 8+ hours.

As you are using a "USB2 repeater" cable, I have two of these fail, so could possibly be the reason, or a poor connection (especially if any connectors are outside in the open). If that is the case, then the connections must be sealed, as damp/rain and even wind could be interrupting the signal-path.

USB-A - plugs and sockets are not the best for keeping good-contacts in any case, just cheap and cheerful over many years - unless manufactured to the highest standards and where most come from places like China - where QC often fails to exist.

I have a ordinary USB-2 cable from my computer (not a PC) in the observatory to an outside weather-proof box. From that box, a second USB-2 lead from the Oculus camera to that box enters through the bottom & through a sealing membrane to make a connections inside. The same applies to the Dew-Heater thin 12Volt power cable. Total cable-length is approximately 4-metres from computer to camera with no problems at all.

If you have or can get a long-enough USB-2/3 cable(s) up to say 15-feet and try that out instead of the powered/repeater, to see if that clears the fault, probably the easiest and cheapest way to go forwards.

Best Wishes
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thank you Brian for your further comment and yes I have to agree with you that some might have a problem in better than freezing-point conditions.

As you say there are those other factors which could be the reason, such as poorer-quality Etalon, albeit for Lunt items (as in this scenario), this may or may not be the case...

Your experiences with Ha etc,, certainly show what can be achieved in your extreme-cold environment and I seriously believe that you should get a medal for doing what you do so well...
I used to brave our warmer (but still very-cold) weather for visual and imaging night-sky stuff, but when one gets older, it can be more of a punishment - rather than a hobby...

Regards
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Also David F., which download program are you using for the Oculus ??

Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Good Terry, it's not the blockers or tuning after all. The first bright image looks like one I would do exposing for prominences. The second obviously the " surface " chromosphere. :)


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Yes James, that is absolutely correct and as I thought at the beginning of Peter's post. Just a SharpCap setting problem...

Thanks vm
Terry


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by David Fox »

EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 1:14 am Also David F., which download program are you using for the Oculus ??

Terry
Terry,
Using the impressive looking AllSkEye software direct to the Oculus.
Had the Ocupi wifi addition working great for years, until recently, just not longer connects to network.
I'm ok re elements, housed with electrics but my repeater is quite long, well over 25'.
0F67D523-B092-4EE2-992C-F626D0C54FA6.jpeg
0F67D523-B092-4EE2-992C-F626D0C54FA6.jpeg (105.93 KiB) Viewed 1842 times
I changed over to SurfaceBook around the same time - had to change my not too old usbDVD as just would not entertain it - so maybe was thinking this is more of it.
I've come across another smaller one here so I'll try that and if not will do as you suggest.


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Re: IS MY PRESSER TUNER OK

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Ok David thanks for the update and image.

As they are not expensive, would suggest to try a non-powered 3M extension USB-3 and/or the 5M version if you can get one in either USB-2 or 3, to see if that solves the problem. At least the cable could well come in use later if not solving the issue...

I also have AllSkEye and SharpCap can also and very-easily do the downloads too. Both much easier than the SX program...

Keep me updated please on the issue...

Cheers
Terry


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