Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

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c8er
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Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by c8er »

I am looking for ideas for a small pixel camera (about or smaller than than 3μm pixels - but with a not tiny sensor size) to use for solar ha imaging with some short focal length refractors, including full disk imaging without needing to do mosaics. I have used a ZWO ASI174MM for several years ,which works fine on my longer focal length setups, up to a 140/970mm f/7 APM frac with a daystar quark, but its largeish pixels aren't a good match for my smaller grab and go refractors.

I would buy a ZWO ASI178MM (1/1.8" sensor) but I would ideally like a slightly larger sensor than that, and the fixed pattern noise issues reported by some (but not by others) worry me. The ASI183MM on paper looks a nice sensor size but it has more serious fixed pattern noise issues I think. Does anyone know if all brands of IMX183 (and/or IMX178) sensor cameras have the fixed pattern noise issues for solar ha imaging, or is that only a problem with the ZWO versions?

I know very little about the basler and flir etc ranges to know which of their cameras might suit. I see that there is an FLIR Blackfly USB 3 mono camera with a perfect sized 2/3" IMX264 sensor, with 3.45μm pixels (a bit larger pixels than I ideally want but would work) at about $1K USD in price, and another with a 4/3 IMX250 sensor (bigger than I need) and 2.74μm pixels (about right for my small refractors I think), but its getting pricey at $2.25k USD. Does anyone know anything about those two?

Any other ideas are welcome.

Cheers and thanks
Chris M


Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand.
Solar Ha setup: Daystar Ha Quark, APM 140/980 refractor, Coronado SMII 60 DS BF15, McDougall Solar AutoGuider. Skywatcher ST80, Orion ED 80, WO ZS66 SD, and Nova 102mm f/6.5 achromat refractors.
Other scopes: C8,C11, ES Comet Hunter Mak-Newt, on 10Micron GM1000HPS, Celestron AVX, 8SE, CG-5 and Skywatcher Solarquest mounts.
Cameras: Celestron Neximage Burst Mono, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, AS120MC, ASI174MM, ASI290MC, Canon 60D, Celestron Nightscape CCD
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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by marktownley »

I would totally avoid the 183 because of the fixed pattern noise in Ha.

I would go for an ZWO1600 and barlow up to full frame.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by c8er »

marktownley wrote: Tue Nov 09, 2021 5:24 pm I would totally avoid the 183 because of the fixed pattern noise in Ha.

I would go for an ZWO1600 and barlow up to full frame.
Thanks Mark, I hadn't thought of that option of a much larger sensor and barlowing to make up for the somewhat larger pixels. I like that idea.

Cheers,
Chris M


Location: Bay of Plenty, New Zealand.
Solar Ha setup: Daystar Ha Quark, APM 140/980 refractor, Coronado SMII 60 DS BF15, McDougall Solar AutoGuider. Skywatcher ST80, Orion ED 80, WO ZS66 SD, and Nova 102mm f/6.5 achromat refractors.
Other scopes: C8,C11, ES Comet Hunter Mak-Newt, on 10Micron GM1000HPS, Celestron AVX, 8SE, CG-5 and Skywatcher Solarquest mounts.
Cameras: Celestron Neximage Burst Mono, ZWO ASI294MC Pro, AS120MC, ASI174MM, ASI290MC, Canon 60D, Celestron Nightscape CCD
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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by bilbo »

I've seen lots of gossip on the forums re the 183, Mainly from the ap guys as usual who have neither the camera nor a solar scope.

I have the Altair Vesions Mono & Colour, "Snaps" Attached. and as luck would have It, I have The ZWO model on the way.

No problems at all with mine, I'll let you know how the ZWO pans out

Steve
Ha Sun Altair 183 Mono & Color Cams sml.jpg
Ha Sun Altair 183 Mono & Color Cams sml.jpg (436.18 KiB) Viewed 1923 times


Edge HD 8, LS60tha B600, Esprit 80, IK 102
EQ6-R & Evolution Mounts
Atair 183M & 183C Protec's. ASI 178M, 485C, PGR CMV4000, Basler IMX249
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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by marktownley »

I've been lucky with my (recently purchased) 183mm for solar, no fixed pattern noise in Ha.

Your other option now is the zwo 533mm


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by bilbo »

The ZWO variant finally arrived despite Royal Mails best efforts.

I can confirm that it passed with flying colours.I've attached the "Snap". Taking it was a challenge. With the Sun's altitude at 12deg, It skims the top of the treeline. When I went outside to set up the mount I found that the entire veranda at the caravan was solid ice and had to get creative indoors.

The shot was taken through glass of a 2' x 1' top window which was 10ft away, Focusing was done by hand, sliding the diagonal/ B600 / blocking filter back & forth. So I'm super pleased with the results on such a brief and rough test

Steve
Sun Through A Small Window 7 December.jpg
Sun Through A Small Window 7 December.jpg (256.98 KiB) Viewed 1835 times


Edge HD 8, LS60tha B600, Esprit 80, IK 102
EQ6-R & Evolution Mounts
Atair 183M & 183C Protec's. ASI 178M, 485C, PGR CMV4000, Basler IMX249
Too Much Other Junk
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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by GregA »

How about the ASI294MM? I had a similar thought, looking for something with smaller pixels than my 174, but still able to capture full disk and without the image artifacts reported in the 178/183. For my Lunt50

My first thought was the PlayerOne version of a 178 - with builtin tilt adapter to combat the artifacts.

Next was the much more expensive 1600, but the pixel size is still larger than claimed to be ideal for my Lunt50, at 3.8um.

But then I happened upon mention of the ASI294MM (uncooled) - $100 more than the 1600, but with a newly unlocked binning mode that doubles the resolution - so 2.3um. A giant sensor that's overkill, but I can get full disk and have room to find my etalon's sweet spot.

Seems better than the 1600 on all the specs, I think.

It'll be a while before I can put down that much for a camera, and I can't decide if upgrading the scope first might be better, but the 294 definitely looks interesting.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by marktownley »

The 294mm would work well in prime focus applications in 2.3um pixel mode for full disks.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by pupak »

294 is very slow. I tried it and didn't get good results at all. The results were much better with the ASI1600M.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by marktownley »

pupak wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:02 am 294 is very slow. I tried it and didn't get good results at all. The results were much better with the ASI1600M.
Interesting to know thanks.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by GregA »

pupak wrote: Sun Dec 11, 2022 10:02 am 294 is very slow. I tried it and didn't get good results at all. The results were much better with the ASI1600M.
Was that full-resultion or with ROI? I had the impression that, yes, full resolution would be slow, but with a smaller region of interest cropping close to the disk, it would be much faster.


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Re: Small pixel camera for short focal length solar ha imaging

Post by pupak »

My 294M camera test results. It is much more convenient to use IMX533 9 Mpx.
distinction Bit. ZWO QHY
47 MPx. 16b. 3.5 0.4 FPS
47 Mpx. 8b. 5.7 4.4
11 Mpx. 16b. 13.5 16.5
11 Mpx. 8b. 16.3 16.5


I do not look at the sky with the eyes of an astronomer, but of a person looking for the beauty of nature.
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