June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

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June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by LeoD »

Hi all,
My Monday session with C11+Quark+0,5x reducer in Ha. SSM displayed the seeing within wide range 1,5-3", with some rare drops below 1" which I tried to catch.
Just started to process.
thanks for looking
Leo
Attachments
Sun_20210614 105959_cOPs.jpg
Sun_20210614 105959_cOPs.jpg (324.15 KiB) Viewed 331 times
NE limb
NE limb
Sun_20210614 105959_cOPs c.jpg (274.11 KiB) Viewed 332 times
AR12833
AR12833
Sun_20210614 105450_AIdPs3.jpg (849.27 KiB) Viewed 332 times


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by DavidP »

Very nice. That colored prom is beautiful.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by DavidP »

And really nice high res detail at the center of the active region


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by DeepSolar64 »

The proms are nice but look at the structure detail in AR12833 around that spot in the final image. That's impressive.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by christian viladrich »

Very nice images !
Just wondering whether you could increase just a bit the luminosity in the BW image of the prom ?


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Montana »

WOW!! that jumped out of the screen for me :bow :bow :hamster:

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Valtori »

Very amazing proms and spot!!

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Ivan »

Great, great photos.
Браво!

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by MAURITS »

Great images Leo.
Congrats on SPOD 👍


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by H-Alpha »

Amazing photos Leo!!! :bow :bow :bow
The detail in the big prom is incredible, but your AR is also very beautiful.

I really cannot understand how you can even use your C11 with the SSM at 1.5-3"...
With much better SSMs I have not been able to use my C8 in WL. Never in 5 months! In addition, even my LUNT130MT masked down to 100 mm cannot have as clear images as yours with 1.5-3" SSMs.

What is it escaping from me??? I cannot understand. Today the SSM was showing values 0.6-3", but the moving image of the boiling sun limb and surface on my screen was horrible like Seeing 3"... Certainly people with experience on SSM here say that it does not describe the whole seeing reality. Christian wrote in an older post: "A seeing scintillation monitor in sensitive to turbulence < about 2000 m. So the higher stage of turbulence (such as jet stream) is not detected." And today the Jetstream was all over Greece...

I have also observed that by the end of the day, although the image gets really bad when the sun enters the thick lower layer of the atmosphere, the SSM keeps showing the same values as one hour ago when the image was much better. This is still inexplicable to me.

Can you please post your SSM screen if you have it? I am curious to see how much rare were your rare moments of SSM below 1". ;-)

Best wishes,
Alexandros


I thought attaching the SSM of today and the horrible photos that resulted... I have made really clearer images with worst SSM plots...
SSM 2021-6-15.png
SSM 2021-6-15.png (166.86 KiB) Viewed 246 times
Result.jpg
Result.jpg (344.14 KiB) Viewed 246 times
Last edited by H-Alpha on Wed Jun 16, 2021 12:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by arnedanielsen »

Very impressive Leo! Thanks for sharing!

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Montana »

Alexandros, do not despair, you are not alone ;) I get exactly the same as you and struggle even with fabulous below 1 SSM readings with the C11. I think with my C11 it would have to be a reading of 0.0-0.2 to get a clear image. I have an SSM but I only use it very occasionally just as curiosity really, I really do not believe much its results here in the UK due to jet stream motions. I have found that if you cannot see a perfectly flat and clear image on the video feed for at least 5 seconds with the C11 then the resultant stack is utter rubbish. This rarely happens here. If your eyes can see an amazing video then you will get an amazing picture, I have never found Autostakkert to rescue any image at all, quality in quality out, rubbish in and rubbish out. I've clipped beautiful single frames from videos and never been able to match them using a stack. Alexandros, try sorting your frames and look at the best frame, is it in focus? if the single best frame is bad, then all is lost I am afraid. If the best single frame is good then publish that one, I do :)

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Valery »

H-Alpha wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 pm even my LUNT130MT masked down to 100 mm cannot have as clear images as yours with 1.5-3" SSMs.

What is it escaping from me??? I cannot understand.
Your problem is not the seeing. SSM and patience is the cure for the seeing.

Your problem is DIFFRACTION. Diffraction is a smoothing FILTER. Diffraction eats the sharpness. May be also defocusing adds image degradation, may be also miscollimation of the telescope.

To get really sharp images one need: larger aperture, great patience (!) - both first of all, then SSM and focusing and collimation, then fast low noise camera. Practice.

No magical formulae - the rule.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Valery »

Montana wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:35 am I have found that if you cannot see a perfectly flat and clear image on the video feed for at least 5 seconds with the C11 then the resultant stack is utter rubbish.
I have never saw such a seeing with my C11. Even with a 100mm refractor. Still I have plenty of high res images with C11 and C14.
And jet streams are not alsways above the UK. They are frequent guests here too.

If to summarize all requirements for the success, then the list is as follow:

1. aperture - there is no substitution for it. The smaller - the more soaper the image due to diffraction.
2. telescope should be of good optical quality (perfect is better, but not really required).
3. collimation - required
3. perfect focusing - required
4. time for observing - required
5. good filtration (full optical train) - required
6. a certain hours of observing (when a good seeing moments are the most probable, most frequent) - important
7. fast low noise and sensitive camera.
8. Fast and powerful computer with fast SSD disk and at least 16G RAM
9. Some skill
10. No time for FD and similar imaging. This is tooooo common and this is an eater of observing time (see 4.).
11. Great patience and persistence + belief in the success.

This all. It works everywhere. But need to be done in full.


Valery


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by pedro »

Fantastic images Leo, congrats on SPOD


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Montana »

Interesting points Valery, but I have seen beautiful flat and clear videos with my C11 for a few seconds at a time. It has happened several times and these are the only times I have managed to get a decent stack. I have many videos with individual clear frames within them, but these do not stack. Therefore, I'm stacking wrong then? Please could you or Leo give us a video tutorial on how you stack? it would be great to see the video and how you get the good stack at the end. It would really help Alexandros and I :)

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by ffellah »

A very beautiful and dramatic capture of the prom, Leo. Well deserved SPOD !

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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Valery »

Congratulates with the SPOD, well deserved!


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by H-Alpha »

Montana wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 6:35 am Alexandros, do not despair, you are not alone ;) I get exactly the same as you and struggle even with fabulous below 1 SSM readings with the C11. I think with my C11 it would have to be a reading of 0.0-0.2 to get a clear image. I have an SSM but I only use it very occasionally just as curiosity really, I really do not believe much its results here in the UK due to jet stream motions. I have found that if you cannot see a perfectly flat and clear image on the video feed for at least 5 seconds with the C11 then the resultant stack is utter rubbish. This rarely happens here. If your eyes can see an amazing video then you will get an amazing picture, I have never found Autostakkert to rescue any image at all, quality in quality out, rubbish in and rubbish out. I've clipped beautiful single frames from videos and never been able to match them using a stack. Alexandros, try sorting your frames and look at the best frame, is it in focus? if the single best frame is bad, then all is lost I am afraid. If the best single frame is good then publish that one, I do :)

Alexandra
Thanks a lot Alexandra!!! I really feel better that I am not alone in this. :-)
Although I would prefer that you could enjoy your C11 much more often.
You perfectly expressed both my feelings and thoughts about Hi-res and seeing/SSM. Really! You found the exact words. I cannot agree more and echo more your words. In my much fewer time with solar, I have the very same experiences, both regarding what I see on my screen and what Autostakkert can rescue. I often also thought that I am not exploiting properly Autostakkert, but I don't think it is the case.
I think it is all about seeing...

I am getting more and more convinced, because even with my Lunt130MT, I see at a lower scale a similar image behaviour, so it should not be just about my C8. We may have to move to some other countries of people that present us miracles here with their scopes. ;-)

Best wishes,
Alexandros


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by H-Alpha »

Valery wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:48 am
I have never saw such a seeing with my C11. Even with a 100mm refractor. Still I have plenty of high res images with C11 and C14.
And jet streams are not alsways above the UK. They are frequent guests here too.

If to summarize all requirements for the success, then the list is as follow:

1. aperture....
....
11. Great patience and persistence + belief in the success.

Valery
Thanks a lot Valery. You very well summerized the 11 precious rules!
I think I apply all of them carefully and Alexandra probably much more than me. But still we have not the results of other people.
The only thing I have not checked is the noise of the camera. Nevertheless, I use one that many good astrophotographers and many people here use. The ASI290MM.

As Alexandra noted, a video tutorial from someone who knows well the potential secrets that we may ignore in Autostakkert (if any), would help a lot to understand if there lays the "magic". But could this be the great secret recipe behinds the amazing Hi-Res photos we see here? I have a doubt.

Next time I see a great Hi-Res uploaded, I will kindly ask for a piece of the original video capture to see what was visible on the screen of the person who made the photo. ;-)

Best wishes,
Alexandros


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Congratulations on the SPOD!!


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by JochenM »

Great captures, Leo. Love the fine detail in the prom.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by LeoD »

Hi all, sorry for the late response!
Many thanks to everybody for kind words and the interest, as well as for the SPOD.

To Alexandros: the only I can note is that I see a proper correspondence with on-screen live and SSM figures both during the given day session and overall, nothing to do imaging even with 80mm if it shows more than 3-4", as always boiling near the ground at hot daytime. As to me, your SSM data can't explain so blurry image. I suppose, it must be another reason. I have the same opinion and experience with the jetstream.
I attach also my SSM data, with 2 marks of imaging time 11:36 and 12:28, both prom and AR.

I found another similar stack but with better spicules on the limb and make more bright prom, as Christian asked. I often force to correct a backgound around proms and limb because of the non-uniform etalon, stacking artifacts and processing gradient issues. This time I put 16-bit mode for limb/prom imaging, hoping that dynamic range helps to obtain smooth background and output more, but I didn't see any difference.
Alexandra, honestly, I'm a bit confused.. for the beginning, can I send you PM with the link to my .SER file of the image posted?
Also I tried the same combination like yours Aries ERF+C11 for WL and got good enough result, was a lot of light: ~f/30, 0 gain, 0,3ms shutter with UV/IR+Baader SC filters, with good resolution of granulation.

regards
Leo
Attachments
SSM
SSM
SMM 20210614.jpg (150.62 KiB) Viewed 154 times
AS3
AS3
Sun 20210614 113638 AS3.JPG (175.81 KiB) Viewed 154 times
AR
AR
Sun_20210614 113638_cAIPs.jpg (929.41 KiB) Viewed 154 times
prom
prom
Sun_20210614 122845_cEAI2Ps.jpg (386.07 KiB) Viewed 154 times


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by Valery »

These two last images are absolutely amazing! Penumbra of the spot is simply fantastic.
3-D on the limb!


Valery
Last edited by Valery on Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: June 14 2021 Ha AR12833 prom

Post by ffellah »

Truly amazing images, Leo ! Well done.

Franco


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