AR2706 21 april

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bart1805
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AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Could experiment a bit more today.
D-erf 160mm / Skywatcher 150mm f8 / Baader Glasspath 1,25X / 35nm H-Alpha / PST etalon / Lunt B1200 BF/ 2,5x Powermate / 2 degrees wedgeprism / PGR Grasshopper IMX174.

This one is a single stack:

Image21042018_12h42m_SW150_GP1,25x_PM2,5x by bart moors, on Flickr

And one hour later the first try of doublestacking the 150mm Skywatcher:

Image21042018_13h40m_SW150_GP1,25x_PM2,5x_Doublestack by bart moors, on Flickr

Thanks for watching!
Last edited by bart1805 on Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by ffellah »

Both great

Franco


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Merlin66 »

Very nice!
What blocking filter are you using?


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Thanks Merlin and Franco!
@Merlin: Lunt B1200, forgot to mention it so edited the post.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Carbon60 »

Good images, Bart. Nice to see some activity for a change.

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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by marktownley »

These are brilliant Bart!


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by robert »

Very fine, especially the first one
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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by marktownley »

Definitely looks to be a good PST etalon


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Derek Klepp »

Great results.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Thanks guys. I sometimes wonder what is more important: a good etalon or a good combination of different things in which the etalon is just a part:
seeing / transparency
the telescope plus camera combination
a really good focus
the settings of the camera
the processing
Off course if you have the luck to have a really good etalon, or like Valery are able to select the very best out of a lot of etalons it matters. But if Valery and I would have both the same quality etalon and the same telescope, I do believe his images would be better. And someone who is able to really process a stacked image well gets better results with a normal etalon than someone who is less good at processing with the very best etalon.
For me personally it looks like the seeing is most important and is getting more important with 150mm than with 127 and 100 mm. If the seeing is far from optimal, I really struggle to get the right focus, even with Gamma set at zero. And maybe that is true for most of us here. We talk about the quality of the etalon, for me it is something I have little control on. It is just what I have. Would be interesting to post a link to a avi. And see what everyone makes of it. What results would different ways of processing result in? Would it go from not bad, quite ok, really good to fantastic?


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by marktownley »

For me the seeing is by far the biggest factor in getting decent images...


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Valtori »

Hi Bart,

Very nice shots!! :)
Especially Double Stack!

BTW DS is from 2 PST etalons?

Val


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Hi Valtori,
Thanks! Two pst etalons and a High Transmission Circular Polarizer in between them. Bart.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Derek Klepp »

Bart I have found that yes as the aperture increases the conditions become much more important.I find conditions are seldom good enough here for 150 and rely more on 100mm for Ha and either 80 or 127 for CaK.These really are superb results so you have a great set up there.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by yltansg »

Hi Bart,

Excellent duo!! Can you share your workflow used in your post-processing?

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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by marktownley »

Yes, very nice post processing it is too!


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Bruce Girrell »

Great view in that DS image!
bart1805 wrote: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:33 pm If the seeing is far from optimal, I really struggle to get the right focus, even with Gamma set at zero.
For me, the frame rate of the camera is an important factor in focusing. I'll reduce the ROI for a bit if I have to in order to get a frame rate of at least 30/sec so that I can have close to real-time feedback of my adjustments.

Also, under difficult conditions (I seem to get a lot of practice at this) I make focus and etalon adjustments using the histogram. For focus, adjust the telescope's focus control for a maximum of the peaks of the histogram. That is because when the telescope is in focus, some bright bits will be in focus and will show up at the peak of the histogram, whereas when not in focus, those same points are being averaged with other, darker areas.

The opposite is true for the etalon (I have only one). Look for a dip in the histogram. For this, I look at more like the upper 1/4 of the histogram, rather than just the peaks, as I do with focusing. The histogram will reach a minimum when the etalon is properly tuned because at that point you have achieved the best contrast, which causes many points to be darker than when the etalon is not properly tuned.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

yltansg wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 12:17 pm Excellent duo!! Can you share your workflow used in your post-processing?
Thanks Alfred! I just try al lot in IMPPG and Photoshop.But normally I load the image in IMPPG. Sigma down to 1,2 and set the tone curve as I think the picture looks best. When I did not make a flat (did make one with AR2706) I make a layer in Photoshop and apply Gaussian blur, invert the layer and use linear light. Make it one layer again. Then make a new layer and apply a High Pass filter, radius o,3 or 0,4 pixels. Use linear or weak light and make it one layer again. Then see if it is useful to apply unsharp mask, very very lightly. After that reduce the noise. And in the end use curves to make the final adjustments. It is a bit like that.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Bruce Girrell wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 2:42 pm Great view in that DS image!
For me, the frame rate of the camera is an important factor in focusing.....

Also, under difficult conditions (I seem to get a lot of practice at this) I make focus and etalon adjustments using the histogram.
Thanks Bruce! And thank you for the tips. Just checked and in preview I have now set the preview framerate at max.
Interesting in how you focus using the histogram. I tune the etalon to the point where it gives the most contrast, that I can clearly see on my screen even with less good seeing. I will try your advice and see what happens.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Derek Klepp wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:16 am Bart I have found that yes as the aperture increases the conditions become much more important.I find conditions are seldom good enough here for 150 and rely more on 100mm for Ha and either 80 or 127 for CaK.These really are superb results so you have a great set up there.
Thanks Derek! Yes, that is my experience too. I think I have finally hit the point where aperture fever comes to a stop. But..... A couple of months ago I bought a used Intes Alter M703. It will be checked, cleaned and collimated next week. Made an adapter so I can use the 160mm D-Erf on the 703. So hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show you the results of this Russian beauty. If it works it will be a whole lot easier to carry everything to the garden and far less wind exposure.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Bruce Girrell »

bart1805 wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:24 pm Thanks Bruce! And thank you for the tips. Just checked and in preview I have now set the preview framerate at max.
Interesting in how you focus using the histogram. I tune the etalon to the point where it gives the most contrast, that I can clearly see on my screen even with less good seeing. I will try your advice and see what happens.
You can also reduce ROI to increase the frame rate. One of my cameras has a large sensor and the max frame rate is something like 15 fps. Most of the time it's slower than that. So for that camera I almost always have to reduce ROI to get a frame rate fast enough for focusing.

I suggest trying out my adjustment methods on a day when you have fairly decent seeing. The focus peak and etalon dip should be readily apparent. Both should be very close to what you would set using direct observation of the image. When the seeing gets poor, I trust the histogram more than my eyes.

Bruce


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Bruce Girrell wrote: Wed Apr 25, 2018 5:03 pm I suggest trying out my adjustment methods on a day when you have fairly decent seeing. The focus peak and etalon dip should be readily apparent. Both should be very close to what you would set using direct observation of the image. When the seeing gets poor, I trust the histogram more than my eyes.
Bruce
I will let you know what the results are, quite curious if it works for me. Would be a nice solution!


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by MapleRidge »

Very sharp images Bart...well done :bow

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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by Valery »

bart1805 wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 7:29 pm
Derek Klepp wrote: Tue Apr 24, 2018 9:16 am Bart I have found that yes as the aperture increases the conditions become much more important.I find conditions are seldom good enough here for 150 and rely more on 100mm for Ha and either 80 or 127 for CaK.These really are superb results so you have a great set up there.
Thanks Derek! Yes, that is my experience too. I think I have finally hit the point where aperture fever comes to a stop. But..... A couple of months ago I bought a used Intes Alter M703. It will be checked, cleaned and collimated next week. Made an adapter so I can use the 160mm D-Erf on the 703. So hopefully in a couple of weeks I can show you the results of this Russian beauty. If it works it will be a whole lot easier to carry everything to the garden and far less wind exposure.

Hi Bart,

Stay with 150mm refractor. 10mm aperture increase will not make a notable resolution increasing. Refractors give the best contrast.
Only full aperture of 703 can deliver a bit better resolution.


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Re: AR2706 21 april

Post by bart1805 »

Valery wrote: Thu Apr 26, 2018 1:40 am Stay with 150mm refractor. 10mm aperture increase will not make a notable resolution increasing. Refractors give the best contrast.
Only full aperture of 703 can deliver a bit better resolution.
Thanks Valery, You are right about the resolution. But I will try it anyway. Really curious how the Alter operates in H-Alpha.


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