ASI ZWO 1600MM vs ASI ZWO 1600MM Pro

[arnedanielsen]

Hi all,

I’m considering getting an ASI ZWO 1600MM for full-disk imaging of the Sun and Moon in different wavelengths. I’m a little tempted to go for the Pro version with cooling to be able to use it as a portable Deep Sky camera as well. I imagine the active cooling might be beneficial for Solar and Lunar imaging as well? Are there any downsides (other than slightly higher price) in choosing the Pro version for Solar and Lunar imaging?

I would appreciate any thoughts or first-hand experience on this

Best regards,
Arne

[rsfoto]

Hi all,

I’m considering getting an ASI ZWO 1600MM for full-disk imaging of the Sun and Moon in different wavelengths. I’m a little tempted to go for the Pro version with cooling to be able to use it as a portable Deep Sky camera as well. I imagine the active cooling might be beneficial for Solar and Lunar imaging as well? Are there any downsides (other than slightly higher price) in choosing the Pro version for Solar and Lunar imaging?

I would appreciate any thoughts or first-hand experience on this

Best regards,
Arne

Hi Arne,

Why should the cooling be a downside in the Pro camera when imaging the Sun or Moon ?

Once a Sun imaging Guru (Gary Palmer from UK) told me it is an advantage to cool the ship when imaging the Sun as it deteriorates slower. ¿ is it ? I really do not know but if you have the money for the Pro I would say get the Pro. You can always turn off the cooling.

Cooling gives you just the advantage of less noise in DSO imaging. The exposure times when doing Solar and Lunar imaging is so short that you will not have noise, unless you crank up the Gain.

I know people say the higher the frames per second the better when imaging the Sun. Well. look at my images which I take with only 16 frames per second because my camera is not faster

[arnedanielsen]

Thanks for your reply Rainer!

I totally agree that cooling is good for reducing noise – both for longer _and_ shorter exposures. I’m more worried that there might be some other small differences between the two cameras (that I’ve overlooked) that might impact the main use of Solar and Lunar imaging. Different spectral response, different front window, issues with Newton-rings etc. Besides the cooling the specs look very similar, but you never know.

Best regards,
Arne

[allhoest]

The "classic" for solar imaging is the ASI174MM.
It supports 1936X1216@164FPS
Full well: 32ke-
It is a global shutter camera.


The 1600 supports "only" 1920×1680 57.7fps
Full well: 20ke-
It is a rolling shutter camera.


But the 1600 has about twice less read noise which is a + factor.

From the numbers, the 1600 looks a not a bad way to go if your exposure time is short to go over its rolling shutter limitation.
If you plan to go for deep sky, then yes, go for the cooled 1600.
If you do not plan to go for deep sky, then (I would) go anyway for the cooled 1600: probably less noise and better value camera.

CS
Alex

[rsfoto]

Thanks for your reply Rainer!

I totally agree that cooling is good for reducing noise – both for longer _and_ shorter exposures. I’m more worried that there might be some other small differences between the two cameras (that I’ve overlooked) that might impact the main use of Solar and Lunar imaging. Different spectral response, different front window, issues with Newton-rings etc. Besides the cooling the specs look very similar, but you never know.

Best regards,
Arne

Hi Arne,

Same sensor and I guess same from window.

Newton rings do not depend from anything of the camera. Newton rings is a byproduct of distances, camera inclination etc. and some luck

IMHO

1600MMvs1600MMPro.jpg (352.81 KiB) Viewed 1496 times

[Merlin66]

Hmmm
I have the ASI 174MM, the ASI 1600MM and the ASI 1600MM-C
The ASI 174 is OK, but the pixel size (5.86 micron) make it more suitable for long focal lengths - the ASI 1600 (3.6 micron pixel) I find more versatile in my gear (and give full disk options). There's no significant difference between the two ASI models (They have the same AR window, QE curve etc.) other than the cooling (which I didn't find made any difference to solar imaging)
I do find however all the cameras give me Newton Rings (generally solved with the ZWO T2 tilter).

[arnedanielsen]

The "classic" for solar imaging is the ASI174MM.
It supports 1936X1216@164FPS
Full well: 32ke-
It is a global shutter camera.


The 1600 supports "only" 1920×1680 57.7fps
Full well: 20ke-
It is a rolling shutter camera.


But the 1600 has about twice less read noise which is a + factor.

From the numbers, the 1600 looks a not a bad way to go if your exposure time is short to go over its rolling shutter limitation.
If you plan to go for deep sky, then yes, go for the cooled 1600.
If you do not plan to go for deep sky, then (I would) go anyway for the cooled 1600: probably less noise and better value camera.

CS
Alex

Thanks for your input Alex!

I’ve been using a PointGrey Grashopper GS3-U328S4M for a few years and earlier this year I bought a ZWO ASI 174MM. These two cameras will still be my main cameras for high-res work.

The main use for a ASI ZWO 1600MM (PRO) would be for full disk imaging at shorter focal lengths. This should make it possible to get good S/N images with short exposures even at low gain.
Hopefully the rolling shutter wont cause any issues.

Best regards,
Arne

[arnedanielsen]

Thanks for your reply Rainer!

I totally agree that cooling is good for reducing noise – both for longer _and_ shorter exposures. I’m more worried that there might be some other small differences between the two cameras (that I’ve overlooked) that might impact the main use of Solar and Lunar imaging. Different spectral response, different front window, issues with Newton-rings etc. Besides the cooling the specs look very similar, but you never know.

Best regards,
Arne

Hi Arne,

Same sensor and I guess same from window.

Newton rings do not depend from anything of the camera. Newton rings is a byproduct of distances, camera inclination etc. and some luck

IMHO

1600MMvs1600MMPro.jpg

Rainer,
Cooling and DDR memory buffer are the only differences I can find between the two models.

Newton rings has been an issue when using my PointGrey Grashopper GS3-U328S4M together with my Coronado 90 filter, but hasn’t caused any problems when combining the ZWO ASI 174MM with my Daystar Quark Chromosphere model. I guess I won’t know for sure until I’ve tried
Thanks again, Rainer.

Best regards,
Arne

[arnedanielsen]

Thanks Merlin66,

As mentioned in my answer to Alex, this camera will complement my PointGrey Grashopper GS3-U328S4M and ZWO ASI 174MM.

If my calculations are correct the ASI ZWO 1600 will give me full disk images of the Sun and Moon up to about 1400mm of focal length. This will also give me a decent sampling.
I.e. Using my Takahashi Sky-90 (500mm f/5,56) with 2,5x Barlow will give me 1250mm f/13,9 and a fov of 48’39” by 36’47” with a sampling of 0,63”. Similar fov and sampling will be achieved with my Celestron C5 at it’s native f/10.

Cropping the camera to its shortest axis to a square 3520x3520 pixels should also free bandwidth to increase the fps by approx 25%.
As for Newton rings, it looks like I just have to see how it behaves and address it if it causes a problem

Best regards,
Arne

[marktownley]

Cropping the camera to its shortest axis to a square 3520x3520 pixels should also free bandwidth to increase the fps by approx 25%.

You only get an increase in fps when you reduce the number of vertical lines (height), however reducing the horizontal width of the image will reduce data bandwidth which the CPU will certainly like.

[arnedanielsen]

Cropping the camera to its shortest axis to a square 3520x3520 pixels should also free bandwidth to increase the fps by approx 25%.

You only get an increase in fps when you reduce the number of vertical lines (height), however reducing the horizontal width of the image will reduce data bandwidth which the CPU will certainly like.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for pointing that out! Then I learned something new today

Best regards,
Arne

[arnedanielsen]

Hi all,

My ZWO ASI 1600MM Pro finally arrived yesterday. Now I'm eagerly awaiting some sunny skies.

Best regards,
Arne

[rsfoto]

Hi all,

My ZWO ASI 1600MM Pro finally arrived yesterday. Now I'm eagerly awaiting some sunny skies.

Best regards,
Arne

Hi Arne,

Congrats and you decided for the cooled one

I would recommend you get used to it by making test videos on terrestrial objects so you will be fit when the Sun is out.

Which program for capturing will you use ?

[arnedanielsen]

Thanks Rainer,

Yes, I chose the cooled version. The price difference wasn’t that big and the cooled version is more versatile.

I plan to do some indoor dry runs to be prepared when the weather improves. I will use FireCapture, as I do with the ASI 174MM camera, for Solar and Lunar Imaging.

Best regards,
Arne