Looking for WL tips

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Looking for WL tips

Post by dhkaiser »

Just ordered a Lunt ED 102 with their WL wedge and polarizer filter. I'm looking for advice on using this for both visual and imaging. Any tips will be most appreciated.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by Montana »

Congratulations :hamster:

Do you have a Continuum filter +UV/IR filter, this will help clean up and add contrast for both visual and imaging.
The rest of imaging is pretty similar to halpha really. Don't over sharpen, this is key. If you over sharpen the granulation becomes hard round balls, very gentle sharpening gives you flat irregular granules.

Alexandra


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Hi Dan,
The Ed102 seems to be similar to my 80mm tube and for WL, i would have thought that just using the HW with that, should be sufficient for visual imaging and where the Polarizer would reduce the light from the HW upon adjustment.

It is possible that the light might need reducing for imaging via that polarizer adjustment (if your imaging program will not have a slow enough capture-speed.
(I have produced an 20mm/F-stop disk for my Oriion ED-80 as too much light for a SharpCap capture - through its' Lunt-HW.
It was far-too awkward to use a Polarizer with that combination).

Be interesting to see your results - even though you might just be able to capture the remains of AR2765.
Might even get one to replace the Orion WL for a 3xLunt Tri-Scope Assembly...

Best Wishes
Terry


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by dhkaiser »

Found the Continuum filter +UV/IR filters, thank you.
Last edited by dhkaiser on Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Dan,

A Continuum filter is a green filter. I have a Baader and this seems to be the standard for the Continuum filter.

Look here https://alpineastro.com/products/baader ... ifications and many others do also have it.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

Do you have a Continuum filter +UV/IR filter, this will help clean up and add contrast for both visual and imaging.
Question for Alexandra.

For what is the UV/IR filter good ? My guess that it is for visual ? I do not use one.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by eroel »

Dan:
Congratulations on your new toy.
The Continuum filter is a 540nm filter that enhances the solar granulation, it is also a safety filter.
The ND3 is a a filter that lowers intensity of the Herschel wedge output.
Best regards,
Eric.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by dhkaiser »

Thank you everyone, just the type of information I was looking for!


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by dhkaiser »

Does it make a difference where in the optical train I place the Continuum filter +UV/IR filters, before the wedge OK?


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

dhkaiser wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 3:50 pm Does it make a difference where in the optical train I place the Continuum filter +UV/IR filters, before the wedge OK?
Hi Dan,

I have my filters after the wedge, e.g. between wedge and camera. Possibly the heat is too high if you put the filters before the wedge and they could shatter ... :?:

A Herschel wedge kills approx. 96% of the Sun light and at the output it gets really warm.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Dan,

With my Lacerta wedge my UV/IR filter is at the front of the wedge and my continuum filter (540nm) is on the output side of the wedge. I use a polarising filter to control the intensity of the light reaching the camera.

Hope this helps.

Stu.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I have a Baader continuum filter and a ND3 filter for my wedge. I still need to get a UV/IR filter.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by marktownley »

EGRAY-OBSERVATORY wrote: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:36 pm (I have produced an 20mm/F-stop disk for my Oriion ED-80 as too much light for a SharpCap capture - through its' Lunt-HW.
It was far-too awkward to use a Polarizer with that combination).
An unusual approach, 20mm aperture isn't going to reveal any detail. Can you describe the filter setup you are using something doesn't sound right to me.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by Montana »

The UV/IR filter is very important for white light as most refractors are not well corrected. Large amounts of out of focus UV and IR light can really make the image difficult to focus on a camera sensitive to the light. The Continuum filter does not cut these ends. There was lots of testing years ago and the use of an UV/IR filter in WL is quite a necessary item. However the amount of difference it makes depends on how good your refractor is.

Alexandra


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Alexandra,
It probably doesn't affect visual as much, right? The eye is not sensitive to IR or UV.

James


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

I agree with Alexandra. I seem to recall that a test was run was done by someone many years that showed that the Continuum filter + UV increased the image contrast.

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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

I think that this is the article on using the Continuum filter + UV/IR filter together.

http://www.schursastrophotography.com/s ... icle3.html

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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:56 pm Alexandra,
It probably doesn't affect visual as much, right? The eye is not sensitive to IR or UV.

James
Hi James,

IR maybe just does heat up your eye a bit but UV destroys cells as far as I know ...

Here my search https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ur+eye+%3F

and some examples

https://eyesafe.ca/ultraviolet-and-infrared-light/

https://www.essilor.co.uk/blog/your-lif ... -your-eyes

etc.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

GeorgeIonas wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:42 pm I think that this is the article on using the Continuum filter + UV/IR filter together.

http://www.schursastrophotography.com/s ... icle3.html

George
Hi George,

Excellent article which made me now look into my optical train and look for a place where to add the IR/UV filter

:bow


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

You want to start with the least blocking filter at the front and gradually decease the light passing to spread the heat load across the filters.

Dichoric filters are the best at the front as they reflect the unwanted light rather than absorb it.

So a dichoric UV/IR filter.

A dichoric narrower band filter, blue, green or red as appropriate.

A really narrow dichoric band filter.

And then absorbtive ones.

If you remove the filter quickly and point a remote IR thermometer at the front you can find what temperature its at. On my 180mm PST mode the Collimating lens / Baader 35nm has got up to a maximum of 60C on a clear day. Feels hot to the touch. But its well below the melting point of the lens or filter.

I have a Beloptik UV/IR filter on KG3 which blocks the long IR on the eyepiece as the KG3 bit absorbs the long IR even after Baader 35nm, PST etalon, blocking filter. And it does reduce the remote IR thermometer temperature reading.

And a 0.3ND filter with the Omega Bobs 1.5 Angstrom as they pass more light. I could feel my eye heating. Pointing the remote IR thermometer up the eyepiece without the ND gave 64C, I assume its the equivilent Black Body temperature at 0.95 absorbtion. RodAstro using Bobs at the same time co-incidentally added a polariser, it was an unusually clear day. With the ND it was giving 35C.

I think you should not view if its over 35C body temperature. On my 180mm PST mod its usually 24C which I think is OK.

Also where ever a filter is the same solid angle has the same heat input which creates the noise or thermals. At the same F No.
The intensity of light on an optical component does not matter as long as it does not melt.

Andrew.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

Hi Rainer,

I try to keep the two filters far apart as if they are close together I got internal reflection of light bouncing between the filters.

I have the 3ND filter in front of the scope and place the 2" Continuum filter at the end of an longish (80mm) adapter and then then camera with the smaller UV/IR filter that always stays on the ASI174MM camera. Using the Takahashi Mewlon 210 the exposures times are very short in the order of 2 to 3ms which freezes the seeing nicely.

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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by DeepSolar64 »

rsfoto wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:37 pm
DeepSolar64 wrote: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:56 pm Alexandra,
It probably doesn't affect visual as much, right? The eye is not sensitive to IR or UV.

James
Hi James,

IR maybe just does heat up your eye a bit but UV destroys cells as far as I know ...

Here my search https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... ur+eye+%3F

and some examples

https://eyesafe.ca/ultraviolet-and-infrared-light/

https://www.essilor.co.uk/blog/your-lif ... -your-eyes

etc.

Yes. I brought that point up at work where we have to test UV LEDs to see if they work. I usually work and observe with my glasses on which have a UV activated tint that is supposed to block UV. How affective it is I don't know. I try to use long eye relief eyepieces wherever possible. Does the ND3 filter have UV or IR blocking properties when using it with the wedge? When using the Coronado SMII90 in single-stack I can sometimes feel the heat from the eyepiece but it is never uncomfortable. However when using long eye relief eyepieces I cannot feel it at all. It is blocked effectively by my glasses. Whenever possible I use my Cemax barlow with the long eye relief eyepieces to double their power therefore preserving the advantages of having that long eye relief with my glasses. I cannot feel any heat as all when the double-stack filter is on the scope. An IR UV cut filter would be of use with both my WL and Ha scopes.

James


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

You want to start with the least blocking filter at the front and gradually decease the light passing to spread the heat load across the filters.
Hi Andrew,

I am a bit skeptical about you wrote. The first optical surface after the telescope lenses will always get the full power of the Sun IMHO ...

If you talk about a Herschel wedge and no filter in front then the Herschel wedge will divert 95.4% of the Sun's light to the dead side and just " only " 4.6% of the Sun's light go to the part where you either are visually or a camera.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_wedge


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by krakatoa1883 »

GeorgeIonas wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 2:46 amUsing the Takahashi Mewlon 210 the exposures times are very short in the order of 2 to 3ms which freezes the seeing nicely.
Hi George, do you mean your Mewlon has a front ERF ? I have a Mewlon too but I use a front Astrosolar ND3.8.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by Highbury Mark »

New gear sounds excellent. A couple of tips I’ve picked up about visual white light over the years:

It’s all about high magnification. Active regions can display amazing detail with the right equipment and conditions.

Seeing is even more crucial than solar ha - sometimes it takes 30 minutes of patient observing to be rewarded with 5 seconds of stunning detail at high powers.

Although I don’t think binoviewers show (me) more detail, they make observing much more comfortable. I use a pair of 25mm Fujiyama orthos, a Baader binoviewer and wedge, and Barcon barlow, and control power by adding T2 spacers. This is preferable to using short focal length eyepieces I find. A set up shamelessly stolen from another member of Stargazers Lounge who achieves great WL results.

Good optics deliver sharper views at higher mags. Your ED should be a fine WL instrument.


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

Hi Raf,

I use the Astrosolar ND3.8 too, sorry if I was not clear about it.

George


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

GeorgeIonas wrote: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:28 pm Hi Raf,

I use the Astrosolar ND3.8 too, sorry if I was not clear about it.

George
Hi George,

Do I understand correctly that putting a Solar film on a Mewlon, it can be used for White Light with no trouble at all ? As you know I have a Mewlon 250.

Should one use the whole aperture or a cutout and fill that with film ?

Thanks for any comment :bow2


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

Hi Rainer,

I use the full aperture.

George


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

GeorgeIonas wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 5:43 am Hi Rainer,

I use the full aperture.

George
Hi George,

Thanks. Will get some Solar film and make a full aperture WL filter for the Mewlon 250.

Some time ago I made a Flatmaker for my Mewlon250 and I will use that one for the solar film. Will take out the plastic sheet I have there and put the Solar film there.

RS_FlatMaker_Mewlon.jpg
RS_FlatMaker_Mewlon.jpg (562.02 KiB) Viewed 384 times


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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by GeorgeIonas »

Hi Rainer,

It will be awesome, you'll get the full aperture resolution. I would use ND5 rather than ND3.8 as with my Mewlon 210 + 2x Barlow + Continuum filter + UV/IR + ASI174MM camera the image was quite bright, I was using 2-3ms exposures.

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Re: Looking for WL tips

Post by rsfoto »

GeorgeIonas wrote: Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:07 pm Hi Rainer,

It will be awesome, you'll get the full aperture resolution. I would use ND5 rather than ND3.8 as with my Mewlon 210 + 2x Barlow + Continuum filter + UV/IR + ASI174MM camera the image was quite bright, I was using 2-3ms exposures.

George
Hi George,

Thanks for the tip. Let me see now from where I get the film send to Mexico. :bow2


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