Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
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Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Lou's picture of the off band H-alpha shows lots of bright spots in AR12770.
If anyone has any clear weather over the weekend why not take an animation of AR12770 in the blue wing of H-alpha. Ellerman bombs will come and go over a period of 10-20 minutes, whereas arch filament footpoints will remain stable over this period. So the only way to tell which of these two the bright points are is with an animation. It would be nice to see some animations and see how many Ellerman bombs are observed.
Alexandra
If anyone has any clear weather over the weekend why not take an animation of AR12770 in the blue wing of H-alpha. Ellerman bombs will come and go over a period of 10-20 minutes, whereas arch filament footpoints will remain stable over this period. So the only way to tell which of these two the bright points are is with an animation. It would be nice to see some animations and see how many Ellerman bombs are observed.
Alexandra
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Ellerman bombs , interesting but in another band it is possible?
Paul
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Last edited by banjo on Sat Aug 08, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Hi Alexandra,Montana wrote: ↑Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:01 pm Lou's picture of the off band H-alpha shows lots of bright spots in AR12770.
If anyone has any clear weather over the weekend why not take an animation of AR12770 in the blue wing of H-alpha. Ellerman bombs will come and go over a period of 10-20 minutes, whereas arch filament footpoints will remain stable over this period. So the only way to tell which of these two the bright points are is with an animation. It would be nice to see some animations and see how many Ellerman bombs are observed.
Alexandra
Interesting. I am trying it out but have not managed yet to get my etalons out of band
regards Rainer
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Which direction on a Quark is blue???
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Hi,
No idea. Just turn the temperature up and down ...
A well educated guess from my side would be Temperature down = Blue Wing, Temperature up = Red Wing
regards Rainer
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Great idea, Alexandra!
I think I will try it out if I get the chance. I’m lucky with the Daystar QPE. I can just set a wavelength on the digital display (pretty accurately calibrated).
Rainer and Jack: Cooling the etalon shifts transmission to the blue. Etalon transmission peaks occur when a standing wave condition is satisfied. This requires an integral number of half wavelengths to fit inside the etalon cavity with nodes at the two end reflectors. When the etalon is heated, the cavity expands and longer wavelengths (associated with redder light) satisfy the standing wave condition. Conversely when the cavity cools.
Cheers.
Peter
I think I will try it out if I get the chance. I’m lucky with the Daystar QPE. I can just set a wavelength on the digital display (pretty accurately calibrated).
Rainer and Jack: Cooling the etalon shifts transmission to the blue. Etalon transmission peaks occur when a standing wave condition is satisfied. This requires an integral number of half wavelengths to fit inside the etalon cavity with nodes at the two end reflectors. When the etalon is heated, the cavity expands and longer wavelengths (associated with redder light) satisfy the standing wave condition. Conversely when the cavity cools.
Cheers.
Peter
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
I can try to observe them visually. I just need to know what to look for.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Hi James,DeepSolar64 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 08, 2020 12:40 am I can try to observe them visually. I just need to know what to look for.
You need to look for little bright spots appearing on the border of the Umbra with Penumbra.
Look here in this post the first image
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=29061
regards Rainer
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Rainer,
Surprisingly, I guess I never paid too much attention to the spots themselves in Ha concentrating on them in white light. I will have to change this since these Ellerman bombs occur in their vicinity. They look really small which will make them a challenge visually, even with good seeing. I bet they will take double-stacking to show them up. I am up for a challenge though.
Paul,
You caught the boiling action of the photosphere very well. Those granule convection cells are shown here like no still photo can!!
James
Surprisingly, I guess I never paid too much attention to the spots themselves in Ha concentrating on them in white light. I will have to change this since these Ellerman bombs occur in their vicinity. They look really small which will make them a challenge visually, even with good seeing. I bet they will take double-stacking to show them up. I am up for a challenge though.
Paul,
You caught the boiling action of the photosphere very well. Those granule convection cells are shown here like no still photo can!!
James
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Good idea, Alexandra. Now I just need some Sun.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Great that I got everyone interested
Ellerman bombs can only be seen in the very low part of the chromosphere, so you can see these bright spots at their best in the wings of Hydrogen alpha. You can see them in CaK but then they really do get mixed up with arch filament foot points. Possibly you may see the brightest ones coming through to the photosphere in GBand but they tend to be called white light sub flares and are very rare.
However in the wings of Halpha particularly the blue wing you should see quite a few over half an hour as they are much easier to see and stand out quite well in a good active region. I don't think I have ever seen an animation of this before. I have done timed studies before but never an animation.
Yes Stuart, some Sun would be nice. I live in the most useless part of the UK for cloud Alexandra
Ellerman bombs can only be seen in the very low part of the chromosphere, so you can see these bright spots at their best in the wings of Hydrogen alpha. You can see them in CaK but then they really do get mixed up with arch filament foot points. Possibly you may see the brightest ones coming through to the photosphere in GBand but they tend to be called white light sub flares and are very rare.
However in the wings of Halpha particularly the blue wing you should see quite a few over half an hour as they are much easier to see and stand out quite well in a good active region. I don't think I have ever seen an animation of this before. I have done timed studies before but never an animation.
Yes Stuart, some Sun would be nice. I live in the most useless part of the UK for cloud Alexandra
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Oh yes, Rainer you need to be in single stack mode and take the filter off band, don't try it with a double stack
Alexandra
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Hi Alexandra,
Thank you for that information, but then ...
" Houston, we have a problem "
as my setup is fixed and cabled I will not be able to make it work. To much disassembling which I do not like.
regards Rainer
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Single Stack? I was surprised at that. But it's good. I can get more magnification in SS than in DS.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Interesting project. Hopefully will get some blue skies between next weeks thunderstorms...
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Great idea Alexandra - wish I could try it.
Unfortunately my Quark is only just on band at its coolest setting and I can only keep it there for any length of time on hot days by sticking it in the freezer for a few minutes or, as I discovered yesterday, by using a large cooling fan directed at it!
If/when we get some sunny days, I will try it with my Lunt 100THa - just need to work out whether increasing or decreasing pressure moves to the blue wing??????
Unfortunately my Quark is only just on band at its coolest setting and I can only keep it there for any length of time on hot days by sticking it in the freezer for a few minutes or, as I discovered yesterday, by using a large cooling fan directed at it!
If/when we get some sunny days, I will try it with my Lunt 100THa - just need to work out whether increasing or decreasing pressure moves to the blue wing??????
.
.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Today in the first two hours of my observing session when the seeing was good I did get some small light spots near the sunspot. They did change some disappearing and others appearing over that time. But are those Ellerman bombs or just changes in the plage surrounding the spot over that time? Observations made in single-stack at 100x. SMII90. I tuned to what I think is the blue wing of Ha. Low down into the chromosphere. The filament nearby was not obvious, I was tuned more towards it's base. Move the lever and it tuned up into view.
Alexandra, your imaging challenge has also became a visual one.
Alexandra, your imaging challenge has also became a visual one.
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Well done James!! I had a go yesterday in the afternoon and failed miserably, I couldn't see any spots at all. I am sure James that if you saw spots come and go around the spots you were seeing Ellerman bombs. Magnetic footpoints tend to be more stable over the hours, whereas the bombs are quite transitory from a few minutes to 10-20 minutes.
Yesterday I had the usual frustrating clouds but a gap formed around 2.30-3.30pm. I imaged during this time but now I know why I avoid solar viewing at this time, very hot and absolutely dire seeing
Everyone, don't get hung up about blue and red wing, just have a look in either and see if you can see them. Of course red shifted material is moving away from you and blue shift is moving towards you. I need to go and look in the Zirin book to see if bombs or more likely to move out (towards you) some research needed.
Alexandra
Yesterday I had the usual frustrating clouds but a gap formed around 2.30-3.30pm. I imaged during this time but now I know why I avoid solar viewing at this time, very hot and absolutely dire seeing
Everyone, don't get hung up about blue and red wing, just have a look in either and see if you can see them. Of course red shifted material is moving away from you and blue shift is moving towards you. I need to go and look in the Zirin book to see if bombs or more likely to move out (towards you) some research needed.
Alexandra
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Quote from 'Observing the Sun - a pocket field guide' by Jamey L Jenkins
"Ellerman Bombs
Ellerman bombs occur low in the chromosphere, 600-1,100km above the surface, and therefore appear best in the wings of the H-alpha line. Bombs last in the range of 5-10 minutes before disappearing and have been known to pop back into view after a half hour or so. Look for Ellerman bombs within the interior of a new emerging flux region, around the edges of sunspots, or at the base of spicules and active filaments. Ellerman bombs figure to be the result of magnetic reconnections in the chromosphere."
It's great that this has resulted in so much discussion. Perhaps each month I could focus on a feature and we could all observe/image and look for them sometimes we forget all the little things of interest on the sun which are great fun to learn and spot.
Alexandra
"Ellerman Bombs
Ellerman bombs occur low in the chromosphere, 600-1,100km above the surface, and therefore appear best in the wings of the H-alpha line. Bombs last in the range of 5-10 minutes before disappearing and have been known to pop back into view after a half hour or so. Look for Ellerman bombs within the interior of a new emerging flux region, around the edges of sunspots, or at the base of spicules and active filaments. Ellerman bombs figure to be the result of magnetic reconnections in the chromosphere."
It's great that this has resulted in so much discussion. Perhaps each month I could focus on a feature and we could all observe/image and look for them sometimes we forget all the little things of interest on the sun which are great fun to learn and spot.
Alexandra
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Re: Imaging challenge - Ellerman bombs
Montana wrote: ↑Mon Aug 10, 2020 7:22 am Well done James!! I had a go yesterday in the afternoon and failed miserably, I couldn't see any spots at all. I am sure James that if you saw spots come and go around the spots you were seeing Ellerman bombs. Magnetic footpoints tend to be more stable over the hours, whereas the bombs are quite transitory from a few minutes to 10-20 minutes.
Yesterday I had the usual frustrating clouds but a gap formed around 2.30-3.30pm. I imaged during this time but now I know why I avoid solar viewing at this time, very hot and absolutely dire seeing
Everyone, don't get hung up about blue and red wing, just have a look in either and see if you can see them. Of course red shifted material is moving away from you and blue shift is moving towards you. I need to go and look in the Zirin book to see if bombs or more likely to move out (towards you) some research needed.
Alexandra
One thing I have learned, with practice one can see most of the detail visually that is shown in solar Ha and WL images. Images do on average show more detail though. And we have some great imagers here! I will try again today, if clouds and seeing allow.
James
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