Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

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Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

Hi all, just found this site (I usually stick to CloudyNights...) and figured I'd reach out to you guys:

I've decided to dip my toes into solar observing and imaging! For the past few years I've been doing nighttime visual and started tinkering with DSO imaging this year and now want to give solar a shot. I've done a fair bit of snooping around various forums and other research on the topic over the past few months to get a decent "primer" but now it's time to order hardware and want to avoid amateur mistakes before pulling the trigger.

First off, I ordered Lunt 80mm... why this one? Well, it's at the limit of my budget and likely my seeing conditions (I'm in Sacramento, CA). The model I went with is the top tier Lunt offers, which has the 18mm blocking filter and 2" FeatherTouch focuser.
  • For visual... I have TV Delos EPs 6-12mm, and Planetary Zoom. I'm also waiting for Baader MaxBright II bino and TV Panoptic 24mm along with ES 68mm eyepiece pairs that I plan on using with my other scopes for night time but maybe can use with solar as well?
    Anything I should consider with these combinations for visual??
  • For imaging (this is the primary intent for Lunt)... I'm researching ASI174 and ASI183 for cameras. Thoughts/feedback? Are there any other cameras I should look into?
For imaging (this is the primary intent for Lunt)... I'm researching ASI178 and ASI183 for cameras. Thoughts/feedback? Are there any other cameras I should look into?

If there's anything else you guys want to suggest or educate me about regarding this particular scope would be greatly appreciated!


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by Carbon60 »

Welcome, Alex. The Lunt 80 is an excellent choice. I have the Lunt 60 myself, so I cannot comment about the 80 from first hand experience, but others on the forum can. I just know how good the images can be.

Personally I use a Sony IMX174 sensor in a Basler acA1920-155um camera which matches the 60 well when coupled with a 2.5x Powermate. This gives a good image scale for 4 pane full disk mosaics whilst capturing good levels of chromospheric detail.

In addition, image stacking, deconvolution and sharpening will be important pieces in the puzzle. You might already have some familiarity with these tools, but I would recommend AS!3 for stacking and ImPPG for deconvolution and sharpening.

Let’s hope for clear skies.

Stu.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Glad you found this website Alex.

If you look through the many pages back in time to around 2014, you will certainly find many images and useful advice - taken through the Lunt 80mm Ha scope, as well as many though the 60mm version too. Decisions by those examples is a good start.

Blocking Filters available are 1200 and 1800 as "BF" - not mm/millimetres. Either will be suitable for imaging.

The FeatherTouch type focuser is a must for very fine focusing - often required.

You will most likely already have sufficient EP's for a start - a Zoom-EP can be very useful.

For camera selection, ZWO are well good and reference to https://astronomy.tools/calculators/field_of_view/ will be required to decide on which camera is required (depending on whether you want to image the whole Solar-disk or for close-up's, also requiring you to enter the full-details of what you want to use as accessories - very useful calculator.

Overall Alex, LUNT is an excellent firm to deal with and get back-up advice, but also please look through all the sections and pages here to add to that advice.

Happy Solar days ahead for the new Solar Cycle #25...

Terry


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

Great, thanks for all the feedback so far, I'll dig through old posts to learn more.

Also, I neglected to mention that I ordered Lunt's SFPT module to double-stack... does this change the image circle and considerations that go into matching up the camera?


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

Hi there and welcome to the forum.

Both cameras are quite different, with the 183 and its small pixels I would use a slight barlow to fill the frame for full disk. The 174 with its large pixels is much better up at >f20.

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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by Montana »

A very warm and sunny welcome :hamster:

I agree with what others have said. A double stack will be awesome for visual and imaging, I am sure you will love it. Before imaging try and get used to the scope visually, get your eye dark adapted and have a good long look and get used to seeing the features. Then try imaging. I also agree with Stuart, if you have the money buy the Basler or FLIR version of the IMX174, the ZWO is very noisy but cheap :) The IMX174 has very large pixels so is best for higher magnification work, if you prefer to take full disc images then a smaller pixel size camera would be better.

Alexandra


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

Montana wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 6:31 pm ...I also agree with Stuart, if you have the money buy the Basler or FLIR version of the IMX174, the ZWO is very noisy but cheap :) The IMX174 has very large pixels so is best for higher magnification work, if you prefer to take full disc images then a smaller pixel size camera would be better.
Hi Alexandra, thanks for the warm welcome!

So I have another thread along the same lines going on the CN forum, and it there that I discovered the "critical sampling" topic to take into consideration when finding the best scope/camera match. If I understood the concept, it would then mean that IMX174 simply isn't the best option for this particular scope with it's native F7 focal ratio since it would need to be heavily barlow-ed (like, 3x+ to get to critical sampling). Does this sound right? If yes, are there any 3x Barlows that you would recommend?

p.s. I've seen your work in the past - absolutely lovely!


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

The smaller pixel 183 is much better matched in terms of critical sampling than the 174, despite them both giving similar fov. To use the 174 for a full disk like this is the equivalent of only using 40/50mm effective aperture, instead of the full 80mm you've paid for. The 174 is much better suited with a 3x barlow for the 174s pixels, i'd probably get a Televue.
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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

marktownley wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:51 pm The smaller pixel 183 is much better matched in terms of critical sampling than the 174, despite them both giving similar fov. To use the 174 for a full disk like this is the equivalent of only using 40/50mm effective aperture, instead of the full 80mm you've paid for. The 174 is much better suited with a 3x barlow for the 174s pixels, i'd probably get a Televue.

One camera doesn't do everything!
Yes! I totally understand this now and with guidance from others have come up to the same conclusion... use 174 with a 3x Barlow. By the way, is this the one you're referring to?
I suppose a silly question, but just in case... this Barlow would go between the diagonal/1800BF and the camera in the imaging train, correct? Are there better/alternative quality Barlows I should consider?


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

Yup, that's the one. I don't think there is much to gain by spending more than the TV.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

marktownley wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:12 pm Yup, that's the one. I don't think there is much to gain by spending more than the TV.
Any reasons not to get the TV Powermate instead of TV Barlow aside from the cost? I'm looking at other camera combinations as well and for a full-disk image, and if I were to use something like ASI1600, looks like with a 2x mag it would be a decent match. Wondering if TV Powermate might be a better option since it's a 2" tube and has a screw-in option vs tension ring to secure the camera? Any issues with Powermate being 4-element design?


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

You can use a powermate, but you might find the screw in option of the powermate is of little benefit as you will probably end up having to use a tilter to get rid of Newtons rings...

Is your BF1800 a 2" fitting i'm guessing?


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

marktownley wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:15 pm Is your BF1800 a 2" fitting i'm guessing?
I don't know... LUNT doesn't specify on the website and I'm waiting for their customer service to clarify. I sure hope it's a 2" fitting.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

marktownley wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:15 pm You can use a powermate, but you might find the screw in option of the powermate is of little benefit as you will probably end up having to use a tilter to get rid of Newtons rings...
Is this common, having to use a tilter? I see that DayStar makes one, but it appears to have screw-in connections on both ends as well - wouldn't PowerMate's screw-in option be of benefit then?

Thank you!


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

Yes, is very common! :lol: Guess you could use the screw thread but I think they cream more cash out of you for what is a two cent adapter.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

marktownley wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:40 pm Yes, is very common! :lol: Guess you could use the screw thread but I think they cream more cash out of you for what is a two cent adapter.
Well, I use 2" EPs and bino, so figured I'd rather not limit myself to 1.25" if possible, for other applications. Thanks for your feedback!


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

AlexTardif wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:06 pm
marktownley wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:15 pm Is your BF1800 a 2" fitting i'm guessing?
I don't know... LUNT doesn't specify on the website and I'm waiting for their customer service to clarify. I sure hope it's a 2" fitting.
Maybe, guess depends on the blocker you ordered. There's nothing to gain with a 2" fitting as the 18mm filter diameter acts as field stop for any eyepeice, so, any eyepiece with a field stop greater than 18mm will suffer vignetting, this would be most 2" eyepieces!


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by Montana »

I have the 3x TeleVue barlow and it is fantastic. I also have the 2.5x TeleVue Powermate and it is rubbish, I get an annoying circular reflection in the centre of the field of view. in all solar work. TeleVue were useless and never replied to my persistent e-mails so I gave up. Alfred came to the rescue and worked out you had to use a 4cm extension tube on the end of the powermate to get rid of the reflection and so this makes it very cumbersome.

Get the 3x Barlow!

Alexandra


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

Montana wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:57 pm I have the 3x TeleVue barlow and it is fantastic. I also have the 2.5x TeleVue Powermate and it is rubbish, I get an annoying circular reflection in the centre of the field of view. in all solar work. TeleVue were useless and never replied to my persistent e-mails so I gave up. Alfred came to the rescue and worked out you had to use a 4cm extension tube on the end of the powermate to get rid of the reflection and so this makes it very cumbersome.

Get the 3x Barlow!

Alexandra
Hmm, very interesting, I've had good luck with their service on EPs over the years. But, thanks for sharing, nonetheless!

I might look into another option then... as I'm trying to match up another camera for full-disk imaging, it appears that something like ASI1600 with its 3/4" sensor might do the trick but it will need about 2.5x Barlow, hence my consideration of Powermate. I just might go with the 2x and 3x Barlows from TV.

BTW, any issues with using captive lock screws to secure camera to the Barlow? I've always used screwed-in connections in the past for DSO.
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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

AlexTardif wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 5:05 pm BTW, any issues with using captive lock screws to secure camera to the Barlow? I've always used screwed-in connections in the past for DSO.
Nope, the camera you will be using weighs the same as a tomato so there won't be any issue :lol:


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by SimonM »

marktownley wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:15 pm Is your BF1800 a 2" fitting I'm guessing?
The kind folks at Lunt say all the Blocking Filters also have a T2 thread for cameras.
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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by marktownley »

SimonM wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:14 pm
EGRAY_OBSERVATORY wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 11:04 am The FeatherTouch type focuser is a must for very fine focusing - often required.
The kind folks at Lunt recommend (money constrained) to always consider the bigger blocking filter choice over the fine focuser. They also introduced an R&P for $50 more as an option and (heavily) recommend this because most users have only a small EP or a lightweight camera (and not a bino-viewing) setup.
I'm with Terry here.

Depends where you sit with focusers.

I've always ended upgrading all my focusers from the stock focuser. I initially moved to Moonlites, but have found over time these fail - draw tubes marr which makes then gritty, bearings fail, they end up feeling just not quite right and as smooth as new. I've ended up going to Feather Touch which have had none of the longer term failings of the Moonlites.

Lots of people remain perfectly happy with stock focusers, if that's your experience with them then you'll be fine with the stock Lunt focuser.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks Mike and only to add that on both my Lunt Ha-60 and Cal-K 60, plus my Orion ED80T-CF all have slow-motion focus-adjusters, Lunt's having FeatherTouch and Orion with another brand. No problems ever experienced over a 10-year period approx., and a joy to fine-adjust.

Other scopes such as my Dob, ETX-125 Cat., SkyWatcher Pro 80mm Refr., Prinz 60mm (ancient) Refr., etc., would be far easier to use with a FeatherTouch or their equivalent make, but alas that means unnecessarily laying-out dosh...

Terry


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

Well, I did order the scope with all available upgrades, including 1800BF (incidentally, LUNT do refer to them in millimeters, as in 6mm, 12mm, 18mm ;) ) double-stack module (SFPT), and I did upgrade to the 2" FT focuser.

I've had my share of stock focusers and none were great. Always ended upgrading to FT. The one time I didn't was with Takahashi where I upgraded to 1:7 ratio via their MEF3 upgrade, and while it did give me the micro-focusing adjustment it was nothing like FT... spongy feeling that required further DIY/aftermarket modifications.

Another reason I went with FT is because it accepts Optec motorized add-on, and since I already have the Optec Hub it was a no-brainer. Not sure I'll need motorized focusing for solar, but the option is there now :)


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Well I guess you should by now have well-enough advice from some of us and LUNT Alex, to make decisions on exactly what you want and need, so please let us know when you have all up and running, so eventually you may be able to send us some images of your - to peruse over...

Best Wishes
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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by MapleRidge »

Hi Alex...

Welcome to the group and my apologies for the late arrival to the thread.

I am a long time LS80T uses and the scope performs very well indeed.

I went the Moonlite motorized focuser route as I have them on all the other scopes and it allows the ability to use the existing controllers. The Feathertouch will be sweet on it.

There was a question/comment about the eyepiece holder on the Lunt blocking filters, and they are all 1.25" as a standard setup. The holder itself it t-thread to the BF body so you can remove it and add a 2" version...but as Mark said the limit is the clear aperture of the BF, 18mm in this case.

Enjoy the views!!!

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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AlexTardif »

MapleRidge wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:34 pm
There was a question/comment about the eyepiece holder on the Lunt blocking filters, and they are all 1.25" as a standard setup. The holder itself it t-thread to the BF body so you can remove it and add a 2" version...but as Mark said the limit is the clear aperture of the BF, 18mm in this case.
Thanks, Brian! Good to know about 1.25" setup. I wonder if the holder can be switched out to Baader 2" click-locks, but I'll wait for the scope to arrive and see if it's an option.

By the way, I've been digging through your posts and image library - lovely work! I see you're using ASI174mm... any feedback/recommendations for me to consider with Lunt80/ASI74mm combinations? Would you happen to have any notes on your imaging train?


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by AJ132 »

Hi All.

Hope it is OK to bring back this old topic. I also have a lunt 80mm and I am looking at the ASI183. Everything about this camera looks good except for the following comment on their website:

Notice: depends on user’s feedback, this IMX183 sensor has grid pattern noise when do Ha solar imaging, please take flat frame for calibration(out of focus or add a barlow lens to take flat frames). We recommend our ASI1600/ASI174 mono camera for Ha solar imaging.

https://astronomy-imaging-camera.com/pr ... 183mm-mono

I am curious if anyone here has used the ASI183 and if the reported grid pattern is really that big of deal if using flats. I have the ASI174 and ASI178, but the chip size on both of those cameras is pretty small which means I cannot take advantage of the full imaging circle of the lunt. The ASI174 5.86 px size is too large unless I use a 2.5x. The 2.4 px size on the ASI184 is almost perfect, but the diagonal of the chip is only 8.9mm. The ASI183 has the same px size as the ASI178, but has a 13.2mm diagonal chip. So the ASI183 would be perfect for me except for the warning on their website. That is why I was curious if any one here has used the ASI183 and had any issues removing the grid pattern using flats.

Andrew J


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by dhkaiser »

Try your 174 before you purchase anything else, you might be happy with it.


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by JochenM »

Both the 183 and 178 have the grid pattern (in HA) to a certain extent. I've never owned a 183; but I can tell you that it's easily fixable (with a flat frame) on the 178.

Seeing how you already have the 178 and 174; I would simply use those instead. The 174 will be useful when doing higher resolution imaging (longer focal length using a barlow), but will undersample quite a bit when using it for full disks. That's where the 178 will shine (perfect sampling). It will be indeed not quite fit a full disk on a single frame; but it's fairly easy to do a two panel mosaic (I do this all time).


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Re: Ordered Lunt 80mm, could use some advice!

Post by MapleRidge »

Hi Andrew...

The pattern has been documented by some and does not show for others, so it is a bit of a risk. It could be the effect of bad USB cables or ports which could answer part of the inconsistent responses seen. It has kept me form investing in one, though I'd like it for lunar work too. I have a local dealer who who agreed that it could be returned if the pattern made it un-useable, but I never took up the offer.

Brian


Brian Colville

Maple Ridge Observatory
Cambray, ON Canada

Photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/185395281@N08/albums

10'x15 Roll-off Roof Observatory
Takahashi EM400 Mount carrying:
C14 + Lunt 80ED
Deep Sky Work - ASI294MM Pro+EFW 7x36/Canon 60D (Ha mod), ONAG
Planetary Work - SBIG CFW10, ASI462MM

2.2m Diameter Dome
iOptron CEM70G Mount carrying:
Orion EON 130ED, f7 OTA for Day & Night Use
Ha Setup: Lunt LS80PT/LS75FHa/B1200Ha + Home Brew Lunt Double Stack/B1800Ha on the Orion OTA + Daystar Quantum
WL, G-Band & CaK Setup: Lunt Wedge & Lunt B1800CaK, Baader K-Line and Altair 2nm G-Band filter
ASI1600MM, ASI432MM, ASI294MM Pro, ASI174MM, ASI462MM
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