23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

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23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

We had some sunshine today. Uncovered the C11 (working at full aperture) and did some HA and CAK imaging. The HA images were a total wash-out. The CAK images were slightly better.

With 200 frame-stacking:
Image

With 12 frame-stacking:
Image

I have used Neat Image to denoise and minimum pp. Can you give me your feedback on which image is more pleasant?

Thanks.

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by DavidP »

The second image appears slightly sharper to me.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by Montana »

Certainly the second image is sharper but it looks like you had a terrible time with the seeing. Great shots though and glad you managed to some sunshine at last :bow :hamster:

Alexandra


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

Yup. second one is a cleaner image. Can you link to a 16bit unprocessed file for it?


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by VasilevIvan »

Nice CaK images. Second image looks sharper than first.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by MAURITS »

Agreed, sometimes I have a better result with lesser frames.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

Thanks David, Alexandra, Mark, Vasilev and Maurits for your feedback.
Mark - I used 8bit recording due to limited storage space on my Hdd. Here is the unprocessed 12 frame-stacked image.

Image

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

I experimented with stacking lesser frames:

8 frames:
Image

and even 5 frames:
Image

I think the best image was from the 12-frame stacking.

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

yltansg wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:18 pm Mark - I used 8bit recording due to limited storage space on my Hdd. Here is the unprocessed 12 frame-stacked image.
Do you get Autostakkert to output a 16bit tiff file?


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

marktownley wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:36 pm
yltansg wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:18 pm Mark - I used 8bit recording due to limited storage space on my Hdd. Here is the unprocessed 12 frame-stacked image.
Do you get Autostakkert to output a 16bit tiff file?
Hi Mark,

Thanks for the clarification. The 16bit tiff file for 12 frame-stacking can be downloaded at: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rqjfv13zb9bpb ... 5.tif?dl=0

I noticed the beautiful post-processing you did for your CAK images viewtopic.php?f=4&t=32735. Could you use the same pp on my 16bit raw file? I would love to see how it looks like with expert post processing. Thank you.

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by Carbon60 »

Good information and demo, Alfred.

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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

Hi Alfred, here are the post processing settings I used on my images:

Imagemine by Mark Townley, on Flickr

I downloaded your raw file and had a play with it in ImPPG, my settings won't work on the image, however the grab below shows the best I could get out of the data:

Imagealfred by Mark Townley, on Flickr


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

Thanks, Mark for sharing your ImPPG settings.

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by DavidP »

Mark, why the difference in the number of “iterations” between what you did on your image (400)and Alfred’s ( 40)?


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by AJamesB »

Would be fun to play with the 16bit version of each. I notice that sometimes the initial output image with fewer frames, before post processing, looks better than the one with more frames, but that I am able to go much further with post processing on the image that has more frames, and end up with a better final result, whereas the one with fewer frames hits a noise or artifact barrier much sooner than the image with many more stacked frames. Its not all the time though, so as others have said, sometimes less is indeed more.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by eroel »

Alfred:
Your second image is better, it is hard to get what one wants, but seeing rules all the time. :(
Also thanks for all the tips given in the thread.
Best regards,
Eric.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

DavidP wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:32 pm Mark, why the difference in the number of “iterations” between what you did on your image (400)and Alfred’s ( 40)?
Hi David.
Alfreds raw image has much lower signal to noise ratio than my raw image, if I apply 400 iterations to his then the result is just a snow of noise.
Mark


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

Here is my original file. 5000 frame avi reduced to 500 frames in PIPP, then best 64 stacked in AS3.
075502_ZWO ASI290MM_220721_Gain=175_Exposure=7.0ms_pipp_l4_ap6671.png
075502_ZWO ASI290MM_220721_Gain=175_Exposure=7.0ms_pipp_l4_ap6671.png (9.16 MiB) Viewed 496 times
I normally take anywhere between 5 and 10 runs at this, stacking as above, and then open the final stacked image in AS3 and reading the quality value, which ever image has the highest quality value is the one I then process in ImPPG. This one has a quality value of 902, for CaK anything above about 500-600 I know is going to result in a decent final image. One of the images from this session had a quality value of 1750, which is the highest i've seen.


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by yltansg »

marktownley wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:21 am Here is my original file. 5000 frame avi reduced to 500 frames in PIPP, then best 64 stacked in AS3.

I normally take anywhere between 5 and 10 runs at this, stacking as above, and then open the final stacked image in AS3 and reading the quality value, which ever image has the highest quality value is the one I then process in ImPPG. This one has a quality value of 902, for CaK anything above about 500-600 I know is going to result in a decent final image. One of the images from this session had a quality value of 1750, which is the highest i've seen.
Hi Mark,

Thanks for providing your raw file. I will do some practices with it.

One question, what is the purpose of reducing your 5000 frame avi to a 500 frame avi in PIPP?

Alfred


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

yltansg wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:12 am One question, what is the purpose of reducing your 5000 frame avi to a 500 frame avi in PIPP?
Hi Alfred.

If I was to run 10 x 5000 frame avis in AS3 it would take hours, running the 5000 frames through PIPP selects the best 500 frames from each avi. Running 10x500 frames through AS3 is a lot quicker (10 times quicker!).

PIPP doesn't seem very intensive on memory, so I can still capture files and distil them down to only the best frames on the fly...

More details here viewtopic.php?f=37&t=32112

Mark


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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by Montana »

Mark, interesting, I can run 58 x 3000 ser files through ASK3 in 30 minutes while I pack away the telescope :lol:

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Re: 23Jul - AR2846 in CAk - 200 frames vs 12 frames stacking

Post by marktownley »

My laptop is coal powered, indeed it is held together with tape ;)


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