The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

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The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Rusted »

In response to Valery's comment about image detail and noise:
Should we have a discussion on the subject to set some basic ground rules?

BTW
The seeing here was not so poor as one can imagine looking at the images on the present stage of their processing. These images sure consist more details than an eye can see at this stage of their processing. In the science there is a rule: to bring out all the details, the image must show some amount of noise. And if to tolerate a bit more of noise, one probably can extract additional details. So, I took the liberty to process these images a little bit further with an intention to extract possibly still hidden details. And yes, this rule does work! Now we can conclude that such a seeing still allows to get better images than this looks at a first glance.

Valery


Where does the "morality" or "etiquette" lie in "improving" another poster's images where one can see further potential?
Should the original poster be flattered that others would want to "play" with their image?
Are poster's images an untouchable work of art? Do they enjoy copyright?
Should clumsy "improvement" efforts, such as my own below, be permitted? Or even tolerated?
Are original images sacrosanct?
Are other's "improvements" merely a matter of taste?

Perhaps more importantly:
Do we subscribe to the notion that our images are scientifically valuable?
Perhaps timed to capture a unique event?
Or that changing them might then render them as "unfit for purpose?"

Do our images have huge, potential value if we captured a unique event which attracted the global news media?
"UFO hiding behind the sun" sort of thing.


Leo D's beautiful, original image:

Sun_20210727 104638_cPsAI2 leod d1.jpg
Sun_20210727 104638_cPsAI2 leod d1.jpg (432.6 KiB) Viewed 530 times
WARNING: Those of a nervous disposition might want to cover their eyes before viewing the following:
With apologies to Leo D.

sc leod 3.jpg
sc leod 3.jpg (657.86 KiB) Viewed 530 times
Is this really an improvement?
No doubt others, much more skilful, could do a far better job than my two minutes of 4" [100mm] slapdash "brushwork." :oops:


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Montana »

Rusted, the very nature of posting an image on here is an act of freely sharing.

In the 'Silly Rules' for the forum 'All of the content on this forum is yours to share as you like without copyright infringement issues[/b] as long as it is not abusive or for-profit. It would be nice if you credited the imager and forum but I’m not going to police that. For Example : " [username] on SolarChat ". If you don’t want your images shared, don’t post them.'

With this act of free share you are consenting to the fact that some folks like to play, and with playing we can learn a lot. Without experimentation nothing is gained. Like with free speech we should all feel comfortable in sharing, but respect those with other opinions/processing.

You will find most people always start with 'I hope you don't mind, but I had a little play with your image'.

The main difference would be if someone used your image and claimed it to be theirs, that would be very different and thankfully that has never happened.

If you really don't want anyone to experiment with your images, then either don't post them, or like PDB put a little polite message in your signature box and we will all be happy and respectful. Everyone has a different level of 'comfortable' but we can all be respectful.

Alexandra


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Rusted »

Thank you Alex for your thoughtful response. :bow

I hope others will share their own thoughts on the matter.
If they think my raising the subject, so directly, is inappropriate then so be it.
I certainly had no intention to downplay Leo D's amazing images.

The "raw materials" of the images posted here are often the only chance many of us get to "play" with such high quality resources.
So there is great value in the learning experience from discovering what works and what doesn't.
Perhaps as a dress rehearsal for a sudden improvement in local seeing conditions or an instrumental upgrade?

Should there be a suitable space here to share our own clumsy "improvements?" [Hosting capacity willing.]
Or should we simply keep our "plagiarist daubs" to ourselves?

One might hope that it leads to greater excellence overall. The hive mind, if you like.
The artistically bent can contribute where they might lack practical experience elsewhere.
Brilliant image handling experts might not have any facilities for imaging or even observing.

We readily jump on any mechanical or optical improvement if we can possibly afford to copy it.
Isn't working over another's images leading to much the same thing? An overall improvement in solar image quality.

A chance to judge how others see our own images from a different viewpoint?
Perhaps even what we might be missing out on. Given a little help with the best, software, mechanical or optical "tricks."

Most pastimes have an elite who push the boundaries to the benefit of all.
Though, like many other "hobbies," there are distinct areas/disciplines within the whole.
"Polishing" posted images could be one way for our many silent members to feel more included.


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Montana »

Rusted, we have always been posting images on here specifically for people to create their own versions and to practice and long may it continue.

I learned so much from Leo recently when he gave me access to one of his images and it then helped me analyse and process my own :) It is the only way we can all learn and is why this forum is so fantastic as everyone shares so freely and that is the most fundamental point to this forum :hamster:

Plagiarism is a different matter as said above, passing off someone else's image as your own is not acceptable.

If anyone actively wants to share then they can post a png of the raw stacked file and I am sure everyone will be tempted to play :) that is like putting a fish in front of a cat :lol:

Alexandra


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Alexandra thanks for confirming that, I am always unsure and like many people never read the silly rules, silly me :lol:
And thanks Rusted for bringing it up.
I must admit I quite often download a picture and alter it a bit, mainly to my liking and also because my monitor has very few parameters I can alter so what I see may be different to what the poster could see on their screen.
I then delete the pictures after.

If you are unsure if weather it is OK to post your version you can always just PM the owner and ask if it is ok.

Many thanks both

Rod


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Valery »

Rusted,

The goal and the conclution of my notes (and not the "plagiarist daubs" ) were: "Now we can conclude that such a seeing still allows to get better images than this looks at a first glance."
If needed, I can try to retell this in other words if due to my poor not native english is still not clear enough.


Valery


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by davidem27 »

Oh, so many topics in your questions, Rusted!

I think that the most important issue in post production is to not introduce arctifacts.
I like soft post pro, but love details too. So I always try to look at every sensitive point of the image that could be affected by artifacts, just to avoid it.

For what I said, I like the original image you posted. No saturated points, deep low lights, much natural feeling.

I have not absolutely any problem in other's tweaks on my image. Especially when it's for sharing purpose.
Sharing a thought, an idea...

I like forums because they offers the possiblity of learn something from others, as well as to let others learn something from me.
I personally do not like forums to be just a showcase of personal self.

I suppose we are all amateurs. Sharing makes knowledge run.

How about data robbers? Poor things nullity... Have life ever gave 'em anything better?


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I just let others know if I play with their images in any way or use them in a post of mine. I always thank/credit them as well. People here are always free to use mine. Most here have better editing and imaging skills than I do!

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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Rusted »

Thank you all for your helpful responses. :bow


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by Simon2940 »

Messing with someone elses work can be seen as an insult to the original posters work as to them, the original poster may see it as their skills are not up to par with the person that makes the changes.

I have generally found that most people who play with other peoples data have the common courtesy to ask before doing so. A lot of the times, I send data to people who just want to play around with it. Sometimes it's better, some not.

I like to see how others process the same data as every now and then, they do something and im truly interested in how or what they did. It's how I learn new things or different methods.

As long as the person asks before doing, I think it's okay. If you just take someone else's work and go crazy and then post as original work, well not so much.


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by dhkaiser »

As a long time wildlife photographer I go by the rule one should always ask permission to download someone else's images. I have had images stolen off the web and used for commercial purposes. Thanks for clarifying the rules here, I shall be more careful what I post here.


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Re: The "etiquette" of changing another poster's images?

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

As long as no "Stealing of an Author's Work for Any Commercial-Gain" occurs, then a courtesy request to the original-author before, with usually an acknowledgement on and/or along-with the final work/re-work, should be sufficient - to be polite and friendly.

Primarily though, we all may-well have differing ideas as to the quality of posted images, ideas and comments as amateurs, so to gain any experiences and ideas from others of us - is what SolarChat is for, so to keep it "polite and friendly" in the first place - is the way forward.

But then what do I know ??
Terry


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