Solar imaging in winter ??

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Radon86
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Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Hi all !
Today, I was testing a new geared Benro head, Benro GD3WH. This costs considerably less if you get it on eBay. I found you need an adaptor to get it to work on my setup (this adaptor costs about 20 pounds and increased the clearance from my Vixen polarie central drive.
Anyhow, I was trying it out, and it was brilliant ! I can get the sun perfectly central in the eyepiece (Quark on a 60mm guidescope), I have a 40mm Celestron eyepiece. I could only test it for about 15 mins but the sun was perfectly central and had not deviated in the solar finder during this time !!! Using the gear knobs gives easy and precise change to the sun position in the eyepiece.

Next I will try imaging with the ASI174, maybe a small focal reducer will give me the full sun ??


I managed to get about 15 minutes viewing when clouds rolled in and then started to rain ! Within seconds I managed to disconnect and put the imaging gear back inside. I could have just lifted the whole thing and moved the tripod legs, but it was not a heavy rain. In fact after 10 to 15mins the clouds had gone and the sky was clear, but there was lots of wind about...

Anyhow, do any of you image in the depths of winter when the sun is only about 15-20 degrees or less above the horizon ?

Thanks.

Magnus
IMG_3792.JPG
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Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Magnus,
I haven't imaged much in winter but I do observe visually then. The cold and low sun makes winter all the most challenging.

James


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Montana »

If you live in the northern hemisphere times will start to get difficult to solar view from now onwards. This is how I do my imaging (from last year when I got a new window)

Catching the low midday winter Sun
ImageSolar winter observatory by Alexandra Hart, on Flickr

Alexandra


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Ivan »

Montana wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:19 pm If you live in the northern hemisphere times will start to get difficult to solar view from now onwards. This is how I do my imaging (from last year when I got a new window)
Alexandra, thanks for the photo, but how do you cope with the warm air flows from the heating system?

Ivan


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by MAURITS »

Autumn sun very low in the Baader Herschel wedge center.
Location coastal region in Belgium.
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Montana »

Ivan, you turn the radiator off, then open the window for a couple of hours (keep the bedroom door shut or you get into trouble). Do this at breakfast time and you are sorted by lunchtime :)

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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Montana wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:56 pm Ivan, you turn the radiator off, then open the window for a couple of hours (keep the bedroom door shut or you get into trouble). Do this at breakfast time and you are sorted by lunchtime :)

Alexandra


I would do this if I had an eastward facing window to my bedroom.


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Rusted »

Winter imaging? I just wear an old, down jacket, skiing trousers, fur-lined, trapper boots and hat.
Downside is having to remove internal dewing of the optics. Heat bands help but a hair drier speeds things along.
I should make an overall, insulating, lens cap [a huge sock!] for winter. To cover the bulky D-ERF and 6" objective overnight.
Heat bands are too much of a fire risk to leave on overnight. The main tube could be insulated with layers of camping mattress foam.


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by marktownley »

Without doing the maths I don't think you will get a full disk with the 60, a quark and a 174...

The main problems I really have in winter is the weather and work. The weather is generally raining and (like this morning as I type) I will be leaving for work before sun up, and when I get back the (low) sun is below the rooftops.

This year will be the first full year with my pier. I think the EQ6 will be usable in a february to november window, but for the middle of winter my portable pier with the solarquest will come into play, weather and work permitting (so only on weekends really) I have a couple of hour window around midday where I can do full disks.

I live in an urban location so my horizon is artificially high with the usual rooftops and trees.


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Hi all,

Thanks for all your replies. :hamster:

Montana's approach is very interesting. However I don't have a South/North facing window, although I have a South/West facing window, so could get the sun near sunset. I would need to build a new window with sliding window frames....(or removal glass panes ?)....

I was more interested in your observatory location. I would need to setup my imaging in my garden at the back or centre of the garden to see the sun. This could involve putting my equipment on wet/uneven ground. The other option is to site my imaging gear right in the corner of the patio so I can try and get the sun into view. Anyhow, the garages and extensions of other people's houses will get in the way.

Other than that, you need dry ground, high atmospheric pressure and relatively dry atmosphere and low wind...

I will think about this over the winter.

Magnus


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Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

MAURITS wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:40 pm Autumn sun very low in the Baader Herschel wedge center.
Location coastal region in Belgium.
Hello Maurits,

Thats a very heavy looking setup !! Hope you have good weather this winter !

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Montana wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:19 pm If you live in the northern hemisphere times will start to get difficult to solar view from now onwards. This is how I do my imaging (from last year when I got a new window)

Catching the low midday winter Sun
ImageSolar winter observatory by Alexandra Hart, on Flickr

Alexandra
Thanks Alexandra!
Fantastic winter solar setup ! I was doing some research on CloudyNights/SGL, and came across a reference to you winning the Solar photographer of the year again in 2020 for your white light imaging !! Congratulations ! :bow
I did not know as I was busy over the winter last year...

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by ffellah »

Thank you all, an interesting thread.

Franco


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

marktownley wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:31 am Without doing the maths I don't think you will get a full disk with the 60, a quark and a 174...

The main problems I really have in winter is the weather and work. The weather is generally raining and (like this morning as I type) I will be leaving for work before sun up, and when I get back the (low) sun is below the rooftops.

This year will be the first full year with my pier. I think the EQ6 will be usable in a february to november window, but for the middle of winter my portable pier with the solarquest will come into play, weather and work permitting (so only on weekends really) I have a couple of hour window around midday where I can do full disks.

I live in an urban location so my horizon is artificially high with the usual rooftops and trees.
Thanks Mark,
Thats very interesting. The pier and solarquest - that would add to my budget but I would consider it. I have a lightweight EQ3 mount, but it would mean setting up on muddy ?? ground.

I think I would need a focal reducer to get full discs with an ASI174 and 60mm F3.75 guidescope (or I could take a few panes?). Gettinhg to focus with a focal reducer maight be difficult though....

I might try it if I can do it without the whole tripod toppling over...I have to be careful. May need to put stabilising weights somewhere....

Thanks.
Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by arnedanielsen »

Hi Magnus,

From my latitude of 60 degrees North I was able to image all through winter last year. Having to work from home due to Covid allowed me to snap a few quick FD images using a portable setup from my 1st floor balcony during lunch time.

Here’s a picture showing how low the Sun was in the sky (about 7 degrees) around Noon on January 30th.
144275271_940702193403390_2248445386160515646_n.jpg
144275271_940702193403390_2248445386160515646_n.jpg (128.45 KiB) Viewed 735 times

And the resulting image from that day (not much solar activity though).
Image


Here’s an image of the portable setup I used last winter (Coronado 60mm II /BF15, Baader 35nm H-Alpha and ASI 1600mm Pro mounted on a SkyWatcher SolarQuest.):
126303959_702208867366542_5514391785524427593_n.jpg
126303959_702208867366542_5514391785524427593_n.jpg (394.75 KiB) Viewed 735 times

As the pandemic resides and everything becomes more normal I will have to travel more to the office and thus won’t be able to do much daytime imaging on weekdays.

Best regards,
Arne


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Arne,
The snowy landscape low sun picture is beautiful! It looks like a Christmas card! I can see the challenges of observing a sun so low. Hat's off to you that you have succeeded.

That Coronado 60 looks very familiar. I have one just like it!

James


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Very good Arne ! :band

I will need to build a sheltered area like yours, looks really good !! You could even warm yourself with heaters, but not too much !!

Your solar equipment is much better than mine !
Thanks very much.

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by arnedanielsen »

DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:49 pm Arne,
The snowy landscape low sun picture is beautiful! It looks like a Christmas card! I can see the challenges of observing a sun so low. Hat's off to you that you have succeeded.

That Coronado 60 looks very familiar. I have one just like it!

James
Thanks, James.

This picture is of the SolarMax 60 II that I used last winter. I've had much more success (better images) with the SolarMax 60 (traditional front filter) that I bought used this May - especially after I replaced the rusted blocking filter in the BF15 with and Beloptic ITF filter. Also using the ASI ZWO 178mm camera (instead of the ZWO 1600MM Pro) is a much better match for this portable setup. Finally, replacing the horrible helical focuser with a Moonlite focuser was a game-changer.

Best regards,
Arne


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by arnedanielsen »

Boso36 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:50 pm Very good Arne ! :band

I will need to build a sheltered area like yours, looks really good !! You could even warm yourself with heaters, but not too much !!

Your solar equipment is much better than mine !
Thanks very much.

Magnus
Thanks, Magnus.

The balcony is not facing the optimal direction for solar imaging, but it was the only spot I could easily get high enough for the sun to clear local obstacles. I usually put the scope out one hour before imaging to allow it to climatize, then put on a really warm jacket and where able to finish my imaging in about 10 minutes.

Best regards,
Arne


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

arnedanielsen wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:27 pm
DeepSolar64 wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 2:49 pm Arne,
The snowy landscape low sun picture is beautiful! It looks like a Christmas card! I can see the challenges of observing a sun so low. Hat's off to you that you have succeeded.

That Coronado 60 looks very familiar. I have one just like it!

James
Thanks, James.

This picture is of the SolarMax 60 II that I used last winter. I've had much more success (better images) with the SolarMax 60 (traditional front filter) that I bought used this May - especially after I replaced the rusted blocking filter in the BF15 with and Beloptic ITF filter. Also using the ASI ZWO 178mm camera (instead of the ZWO 1600MM Pro) is a much better match for this portable setup. Finally, replacing the horrible helical focuser with a Moonlite focuser was a game-changer.

Best regards,
Arne

Arne,
That sounds like a considerable improvement concerning your Coronados. Like you I am not a big fan of the helical focusers either. Meade Coronado made a good decision on eliminating them from their SolarMax III line and the SolarMax III scopes have entirely front etalons too. The helical focusers work but they take some getting used to and just don't feel natural.

I thought the original SolarMax has a factory tuned internal etalon which was tuned when ordered to the users elevation. Of course an external etalon can be used in DS. I wanna say I seen that in one of Steven's videos somewhere. Not sure. I could be wrong.

James


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Ivan »

A very interesting topic, but how etalons tolerate negative temperatures, for example -10 Celsius, will it not harm them?

Ivan


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by MapleRidge »

Hi Magnus...

I'd say that Arne has the lowest sun elevation of anyone I have seen!

I am in Southern Ontario at 44Deg North, so usually a long winter season, but I have used both the pressure and tilt tuned Lunt etalons well below 0C. I think the record low session I have posted were imaged at -26C, though the typical mid morning air temp is in the -5 to -10C. All of my equipment is mounted in an observatory so it does get colder over night, but have not had issues in over a decade of being setup like this.

Keeping yourself comfortable is the challenge ;)

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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by eroel »

Magnus:
Beautiful setup.
Fortunately I do not get too cold in México City.
Best wishes.
Eric.


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

eroel wrote: Sat Oct 02, 2021 12:28 am Magnus:
Beautiful setup.
Fortunately I do not get too cold in México City.
Best wishes.
Eric.

And Eric, the sun never gets too low where you are!! :D


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Magnus

To help balance your scope you could replace the dovetail bar with a longer one that extends under the Quark, then just slide the setup forward to balance it. This is what I do and it works well and is better as it adds very little extra weight so the mount copes better.

For the same problem of winter viewing I have been looking at putting a Velux escape window in the loft as they open fully to one side giving you over 180 degrees view. If you raise the scope above the roof tiles about 300mm you should get above the boundary layer of bad seeing.
Also build a small room inside the loft around the scope to stop the heat from the loft escaping through the open window, this could be made of 100mm polystyrene sheets taped together.

Cheers Rod


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

MapleRidge wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 11:52 pm Hi Magnus...

I'd say that Arne has the lowest sun elevation of anyone I have seen!

I am in Southern Ontario at 44Deg North, so usually a long winter season, but I have used both the pressure and tilt tuned Lunt etalons well below 0C. I think the record low session I have posted were imaged at -26C, though the typical mid morning air temp is in the -5 to -10C. All of my equipment is mounted in an observatory so it does get colder over night, but have not had issues in over a decade of being setup like this.

Keeping yourself comfortable is the challenge ;)

Brian
Hi Brian,

Thank you, I would love to have a proper observatory. I have to take everything outside so there are multiple short trips through the kitchen door...

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

RodAstro wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 10:37 am Hi Magnus

To help balance your scope you could replace the dovetail bar with a longer one that extends under the Quark, then just slide the setup forward to balance it. This is what I do and it works well and is better as it adds very little extra weight so the mount copes better.

For the same problem of winter viewing I have been looking at putting a Velux escape window in the loft as they open fully to one side giving you over 180 degrees view. If you raise the scope above the roof tiles about 300mm you should get above the boundary layer of bad seeing.
Also build a small room inside the loft around the scope to stop the heat from the loft escaping through the open window, this could be made of 100mm polystyrene sheets taped together.

Cheers Rod
Thanks Rod, for the advice.
I cannot find a longer dovetail bar at present. It is already 20 cm long (arca swiss plate type ). I can just about balance it by adding some weights into a leather purse and fixing this weight to the front of the dovetail bar with an elastic band. I think my tracker will follow the sun for 1 hour at least pretty accurately. Any tracking deviations are easily adjusted with the knobs on the Benro geared head - its fantastic !!

Do you know of any longer dovetail bars of this type ? (it is very light, which is needed for my Vixen polarie).

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Magnus
Are the tube rings attached directly to the arca swiss plate or to a finder scope dovetail? (I can't see in the picture)
If it is to the finder scope dovetail then I would replace this dovetail with a Vixen one that is longer out the back and have a small finder scope dovetail to attach to the bottom like you would the arca swiss plate (see pic), so you could still use it as a finder/guide scope, this is what I do when I want to mount my Solar Scout in a finder scope dovetail.

Cheers Rod
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Dear Rob,

Thank you for your helpful suggestion. Yes, I can still use my guidescope for PhD2 guiding at present but I would need to re-assemble it to fix onto the small guidescope/finderscope dovetail on the telescope.
Here is how the guidescope is attached via tube rings to the arca swiss plate (20 cm long). The plate then slides into the Benro mounting base (like a camera plate).

Thanks,
Magnus
_MG_37300-crop.jpg
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Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

My new mini-observatory is currently under fitting-out and specifically for the purpose of viewing/imaging the Sun during the winter low-down periods.

Should be completed in the next month and will give views during some-times during the day.
When completed, will take some pics and post them here.

Terry


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by RodAstro »

Hi Magnus

that is one long arca swiss plate, what you could do is move the tube rings fully forward on the plate and maybe even closer together and have the scope as far forward in the rings as possible. This would leave a length of plate under the focuser that will help with getting the scope, quark and camera to come to balance.
That way you are not adding any unnecessary extra weight to the mount.

Cheers Rod


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Hi Rob,

The system is actually quite well balanced, I need to put some additional weight on the front of the dovetail. However, it is not easy to rearrange the rings and the Arca swiss plate has not an optimal spacing or availability of the holes for the right screws.

Anyway, I quite like my setup.

(I don't wish to spends another extra hundreds of pounds....)

Thanks.

Magnus


Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by Radon86 »

Hi Rob,
I had another look at my dovetail, and I noticed I can move the guidescope about 2cm forward on the swiss arca dovetail. There is maybe another 1cm I could move forward if I needed it.
The balance is much better, I don't need to put counterweights at the front of the dovetail now !!
I could attempt imaging, not sure if I can get good focus, but I will try.

Thank you so much for your advice.

Magnus
dovetail-merged-macro-resize-800pix.jpg
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Solar: H-alpha": Quark Chromosphere filter; Baader white light filters
Scopes: Altair Astro Travel ED70mm (F 420mm, D=70mm);; Skywatcher 90mm (F 910mm D=90mm); GSO focuser;;Altair Astro 60mm guidescope (D=60mm,F=225mm)
Cameras: ASI120mm-S,ASI174mm
Mount: SW HEQ5 Pro, SW EQ3 Pro Synscan (SW = Skywatcher),Vixen Polarie tracker (portable setup)
Accessory: SW Auto-focuser
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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by BGazing »

My new B1800 arrived from Lunt, so I am eager to test it out (first one produced some ghosting). Reading around, I am not sure about performance in near-zero and sub-zero (C) - does BF performance deteriorate, should it be heated? I know that the pressure tuner sorts out the first part of the train...


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by rigel123 »

BGazing wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:04 am My new B1800 arrived from Lunt, so I am eager to test it out (first one produced some ghosting). Reading around, I am not sure about performance in near-zero and sub-zero (C) - does BF performance deteriorate, should it be heated? I know that the pressure tuner sorts out the first part of the train...
Yes, you want to warm the BF in those temps as you will lose contrast without it.


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Re: Solar imaging in winter ??

Post by BGazing »

rigel123 wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:59 am
BGazing wrote: Tue Feb 07, 2023 8:04 am My new B1800 arrived from Lunt, so I am eager to test it out (first one produced some ghosting). Reading around, I am not sure about performance in near-zero and sub-zero (C) - does BF performance deteriorate, should it be heated? I know that the pressure tuner sorts out the first part of the train...
Yes, you want to warm the BF in those temps as you will lose contrast without it.
Warm as in - properly heat up a dew strip and wrap it around, I guess, not going soft like around a SCT, no tube currents to speak of. Am I correct?


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