JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

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JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Well James albeit still more work to do with the Sodium improvements (weather permitting of course) the below is an answer to those Q's..

" Re: November 15 2021 Observations
Post by DeepSolar64 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:14 am

Terry,
I am curious about your work with the sodium D line filter. Use it visually too. :?:

I wanna know how much it is alike and different than a continuum filter. :?:

Sodium seems to highlight the Photosphere-Chromosphere transition region below the layer Ca II K sees but just above what is seen in white light,
hence it shows many features shown in WL continuum but can also show flare footprints and supergranulation which are not visible in WL.
I think a Helium filter studies the same region of the sun. :!:

James "

and

" Re: November 15 2021 Observations
post by DeepSolar64 » Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:00 pm

I would be curious how the sodium and helium views would compare. The images I have seen between them look quite similar. Have you ever thought about Magnesium? :?:

James "
+++

Thanks for the questions James and today/22-11-2021 has given me the opportunity (only for around 2-hours though) to get a better idea of the visual by E.P. use of the Sodium Quark.

Overall, I feel that the Sodium D-Line Quark is better used for imaging, rather than E.P. usage, but that is based on today's Solar acquisition in very-clear skies and near stable conditions, within in the 2-hour availability.

Through the 80mm (not F-Stopped) it can be a tad bright for E.P. viewing, but obviously either a "Variable Polarizing Filter" or "Moon-Light Filter" or an "F-Stopper" of say 50mm or so, will cater for that and I have such "F-Stoppers" from 10mm to 70mm available and do work that snag.

For imaging, the brightness is not likely to be an issue, as simply shortening exposure times to that of today for an example of 0.095milli-seconds per frame certainly seemed to work quite well, but more work to try and get better contrast and surface detail is required...

I haven't tried any other of my filters other than a 1.25" and 2" UV/IR cut Filters, where the 2" version can be mounted in front of the 2" diagonal as they reflect the hot-light back-up the scope.
Other filters really need more available Sun-light time to trial - when the Sun is higher than now...
+++
Used today = Orion ED80T-CF on the Vixen GP-DX mount using its' SkySensor 2000PC HBX Controller, mounted on the Barlebach Tripod from the mini-observatory
E.P's used today from my stock were:-
VIXEN 4mm Lanthium 20mm-Long-Eye Relief/45°FOV.1•25" = probably better solution to use a Barlow, but with longer addition of length/weight.
VIXEN 10mm Lanthium 20mm-Long-Eye Relief/50°FOV.1•25" = ok but a decent (12)mm E.P. possibly better.
VIXEN 22mm Lanthium 20mm-Long-Eye Relief/65°FOV.1•25" Wide-Angle F.O.V. = shows well, but with the very small spots today, would perform better with larger AR's and spots.
VIXEN 25mm Lanthium 20mm-Long-Eye Relief/50°FOV.1•25" = as above.
VIXEN 40mm Lanthium 32mm-Long-Eye Relief/42°FOV.1•25" = as above, but those 22/25mm better.
MEADE 8-24mm srs.4000 Zoom E.P......................................................= very useful overall and for training the scope on different parts of the Solar disk/focusing.
MEADE srs5000 2" 90° Diagonal 99%-Reflectivity + 2"/1•25" likely to be the better-option than a 1.25" nosepiece - as grips the scope better for the heavier loads...

An interesting article from a comment via our Maurits :-
http://www.astrosurf.com/jiaifer/pagees ... sodium.htm article from a comment made.

I haven't tried any other of my filters other than a 1.25" and 2" UV/IR Cut Filters, where the 2" version can be mounted in front of the 2" diagonal as they reflect the hot-light back-up the scope. Other filters really need more available Sun-light time to trial - when the Sun is higher than now...

Through my 80mm (not F-Stopped) it can be a tad bright for E.P. viewing, but obviously either a "Variable Polarizing Filter" or "Moon-light" or an "F-Stopper" of say 50mm or so, will cater for that and I have such "F-Stoppers" from 10mm to 70mm available and do work that snag. For imaging, the brightness is not likely to be an issue, as simply shortening exposure times to that of today for an example of 0.095milli-seconds per frame certainly seemed to work quite well, but more work to try and get better contrast and surface detail is required...

https://www.rothervalleyoptics.co.uk/ba ... lters.html tells more of the techie stuff of the Continuum Filters - where I have
no real knowledge for comparison.

Our Mark T. wrote on the same astrosurf.com page as;-
" Posted 09 April 2021 - 04:09 AM
Slow to find this topic.
I have one, I rarely ever use it. It just gives a white light view, i've yet to see any images of flare kernels taken with a Sodium Quark.
To be brutal I don't think the tolerances on a Quark are fine enough to get the etalon tuned exactly on the individual lines in the doublet.
The blocking filter in it is 1nm so that is already wider than both doublet lines...
I do plan to explore it's use a bit more this solar cycle.
Mark "

Well sorry to say Mark, you're a tad too late now - as I now own it !!!! :lol:
+++
http://www.daystarfilters.com/HeD3.shtml for the Helium D3 Line 5875.61Å Filter is quite interesting and ideally I need similar seeing-conditions as the images shown on that page to make any sort of comparison to the Sodium D-Line possibilities.
Maybe after the winter, with the higher Sun, some captures as those few I took in the Summer would prove a better comparison, with larger spot activity and plage.. (With a price of $17,825.00/£13,309 [at datum] the results would have to be substantially better and with bigger scopes too)...
+++
Then there's a Quark Magnesium I b2 Filter ??? https://www.cloudynights.com/topic/7165 ... magnesium/ where our highfnum/John has included some useful images which really compare nicely with CaK... Does seem to show some well-nice features, but hey can't have everything - unlike John...
+++
So overall James, for visual-purposes other than Ha and WL, Calcium-H is (I believe) suitable for visual use and no doubt imaging too, but confirmation of that requires an owner of Ca-H...

I trust might answer some of your questions. :bow

Best Wishes
Terry :movie


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by Montana »

Great review Terry :)

Alexandra


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thank you Alexandra. did take a while to compose, but does tend to show that the Sodium Quark seems better for imaging purposes, unless large AR's including larger spots exist to be of better benefit for visual use for studying plage areas.

Terry


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

It seems strange that sodium wouldn't do well for visual. It's at a wavelength that the eye is sensitive to unlike CaH or CaK.
The line is brighter than both Calcium and even Hydrogen Alpha. So it's going to be very easy for observers to see and the exposures will be very short._DayStar
http://www.daystarfilters.com/Quark/NaQuark.shtml

James


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Yes James but as that DayStar web-link correctly states:-
" Why Sodium D-line?
Sodium will give high resolution sunspot detail, plague, granulation, and possibly the super-granulation depending on resolution and seeing of the observer."

So with my location having a much-lower Sun-view in the sky, looking through much more of the polluted Earth's atmosphere, almost certainly will affect that all important seeing. Quite probably washing-out the granulation and making other artefacts less clear...
With much larger Sun-spots and their outer plage areas, would or should show-up better than the two very small spots of yesterday..

More work in due course, including trying out various filter arrangements, will be undertaken, as well as trying-out the Hershel-Wedge + Sodium Quark being used together... So treat the first report as an initial report, with further reports being attached in due course...

Cheers
Terry


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by eroel »

Terry and James, a very interesting theme.
Best regards.
Eric.


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Thanks Eric and yes, with even our Maurits and Mark T., being unknowingly involved within the first report here, does add further interest.

The use of my H.W. and the Sodium Quark into it, should be interesting too as per the Maurits advised web-link article.
Also trying various of my large filter-kit, could also be interesting, but shortage of Sun-light hours here adds its' own difficulties.

Regards
Terry


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by marktownley »

Hi Terry,

My few bits to add to this... With Quarks i've always found 20mm ep the shortest that can be used really, my own favourite is generally a 25mm (cemax) but 32mm plossl is good, 40mm plossl is like looking through a cardboard tube with its small fov.

I bought (and sent back) a Mg Quark a couple of years ago, the view is more CaK like than WL or sodium, id describe as WL on steroids rather than watered down CaK. I think the Mg one would be my choice over Na for visual. I only sold the Na as I don't have the time for that many wavelengths and it was just sat around not being used.

Mark


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Many thanks Mark and yes indeed that is much as I have read-up. For me, Ha, CaK Sodium and WL are they way forward, especially when the higher Sun and longer exposure sessions allow.

The 20mm and the variable 8-24 E.P.'s at around those figures you have mentioned, showed the same.
I could have trialled numerous other EP's from the main-obsy, but the portable Vixen case serves the purpose well + the CSZoom.

Before you and I did the honours with the Sodium, I had already seen enough images elsewhere and some on SC, so with a little more research, was more than happy to do the honours with you and the earlier results during August'21 have shown this to be a good addition to the 3-lights. Just need more work and trials to find the best results at this time of the year...

Thanks vm
Terry


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

Terry,
Oh yes, low sun and seeing certainly affects what one sees. Winter on average has the worst seeing for me. The sun is lower in the sky and the jet stream shifts south in the winter. Frontal systems are stronger too.

And as far as the eyesight of the observer, how well we see details, depends on the observer. How good their eyes are and experience in visual observing. It does take practice. Lots of it!

James


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by MAURITS »

Thanks for sharing Terry.


Regards,
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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by EGRAY_OBSERVATORY »

Absolutely correct James and thanks for the additions.

Thanks Maurits and of course thanks also for that web-link mentioned.

Terry


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Re: JAMES ASKED A QUESTION OR TWO ABOUT SODIUM ??

Post by DeepSolar64 »

I bought (and sent back) a Mg Quark a couple of years ago, the view is more CaK like than WL or sodium, id describe as WL on steroids rather than watered down CaK. I think the Mg one would be my choice over Na for visual. I only sold the Na as I don't have the time for that many wavelengths and it was just sat around not being used.

Mark

Mark,
I would probably like the Mg then. I like the idea of WL on steroids!!

James


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