Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Frankenscope? Let's see it!***be advised that NOTHING in this forum has been safety tested and you are reading and using these posts at your own peril. blah, blah, blah... dont mess around with your eyesight when it comes to solar astronomy. Use appropriate filtration at all times...
User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:29 am

Interesting, I can tell you a little history about your Quark.

It is a matched 'twin' to mine; way back in 2014 the idea was set up to do 'the worlds largest solar image', this was to take place at the Hertsmonceaux Astronomy festival in the september that year. The Quarks hadn't long been out and Daystar sponsored the event along with Rupert Smith from Astrograph. There was myself, Gary Palmer, Steve Collingwood and Pete Lawrence (S@N) involved too. Daystar supplied 4 matched quarks (as uniformity was key) - 2 chromosphere models and 2 prominence models. After the event I bought one of the chromosphere models and Gary Palmer had the other, not sure where the 2 prom quarks ended up. I've kept hold of mine, Gary had his for a couple of years and it was reviewed for S@N, then it was sold on, I think I clocked it came up for sale on FB where you bought it? Anyway, its a very good Quark, seriously keep hold of it made with PE grade mica. Anyhooo, some pictures...
10687239_10153141623267067_287302158766871100_o.jpg
10687239_10153141623267067_287302158766871100_o.jpg (293.14 KiB) Viewed 4286 times
Setting up.
10630564_10153141620867067_4925022649025285466_o.jpg
10630564_10153141620867067_4925022649025285466_o.jpg (375.41 KiB) Viewed 4286 times
More setting up...
10635706_10204348359845839_4877362178414082167_n.jpg
10635706_10204348359845839_4877362178414082167_n.jpg (96.74 KiB) Viewed 4286 times
Gary and Pete imaging...
10549842_10153141529242067_7738297736571877078_o.jpg
10549842_10153141529242067_7738297736571877078_o.jpg (261.94 KiB) Viewed 4286 times
The team, L to R, Steve, Gary, Pete, Rupert, Me

Oh, and the world record image - it went cloudy :D :D :D


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:20 am

Hi

I did buy it off Facebook. Lucky happenstance I noticed the Ad.

Fortunately another one on Facebook I said I would buy when a guy came back from holiday fell through, though it had good images posted.

I need to lock it away then.

By happenstance my matching MN78 appeared on Sky at Night for a Venus transit, Jamie? Cooper.

Thanks. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:24 am

Hi,

Thursday I was out.

I have been asking on CN for eyepiece advice for a 18mm as I ought to be able to get more magnification out of the M180.

I then realised I had not remove a 2.5x GPC from the Baader T2 diagonal so I was negating the Macro lens reduction.

I had to go to another 49mm macro lens with 49-48 adapters on both end in an extension tube chain just outside the focusser to get a reduced image. Not sure about quality yet.

I seem to be seeing what definite proms which are there with the Quark. But flat in terms of contrast but small aperture.

Unfortunately some bugs got in the diagonal and died on the back of the prism and as they are acidic Rod says etched a spot right near the middle. Bright spray of light. I wonder if a claim would work? As its sealed how would one get in after it was made?

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Sat Apr 18, 2020 8:32 am

Does it have to be 18mm? Astroboot has a few options at 20mm. https://www.astroboot.co.uk/AstroBoot/t ... eedle=1.25

Not good about the bugs!


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Sun Apr 19, 2020 9:15 am

Hi

AstroRod sourced me a simple binoviewer with 50mm simple eyepieces.
He said that his Zeiss binoviewer has tilting issues on solar as I recall.
I have to take the 2" nose piece off the Carl Zeiss research (Big Maxbright) he modded to 1.25" for me and put it on the simple binoviewer.

On CN people said binoviewing is best on solar.

See how they work.

I can try the 90mm Quark reducer set up on the M180 as it is, as I am then near to F30. F7 x 4.2.
Compare PST Mod2 with the Quark for visual.
From Valerys post about his imaging setup using the M180 at native Fno should be good.

Rod is getting better images with his Zeiss reduced to F7.5 ish than the donor 60DS native mode. Not surprisingly.

Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:44 pm

Hi,

Yesterday I tried the small rectangular 45Deg 23.2mm bino viewers AstroRod modified to 2" for me.

In the M180 the 5x showed the whole Sun with the one prom visible, nice and sharp. With the 16x perhaps a bit too much.
The surface mottling seemed better. And the background a bit darker.
I have ordered a pair of 10x / 18mm from China, which was the higher magnification I wanted to try.
So I am a convert to binos for the Sun.

Tried on the VMC110. Darker background and just the one PST reflection over the image.

Tried on the 90mm F6.7 triplet and very dark background. With the 5x the second PST etalon reflection far out to the edge.
Moving the Sun to the edge of field the first PST reflection was visible but faint and even.

Maybe the Corrector on the M180 is responsible for some back refections. And not baffled yet like the VMC110.

Christian says in his website the etalon needs to be square on and many are not. And to use auto-collimation from the front to check.
I used this method to collimate my 6" F5 Celestron/Vixen. And standing across the road up the hill for AstroRods 6" F15.

I have recently purchased SH M48 and T2 tilters off ABS.
I can put the M48 one before the PST to make the etalon orthoganol to the light. But backfocus on the VMC110 would be an issue.
I had a quick look at getting the T2 after the PST in my bino set up but not an obvious way, to line up the sweet-spot.

Windy today so did some voluntary gardening at our local church community garden.

A few clear days for playing about.

Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:36 pm

Hi

Today I went out with the 127mm Meade Triplet and a SH 48mm to T2 tilter off ABS.

I noticed a comment in Christians website commenting on the etalon needing to be orthogonal to the light path.

I punched a hole in an old Xmas card and drew a 1/4" wide V away from it I could see it from 20 feet away.

Looking through the hole at the objective lens I assessed where the reflection of the centre of the V was, and also as moved up and down and left to right to the edge of field and judged how much black left.

After a few tries getting use to the tipper I decided it was good enough.

Now I can see proms in the middle of the field, not finding the best bit of a circle of on-band.
And across nearly half of the field as you would expect for 950mm fl.

The only downside is I probably will not have enough back-focus in the VMC110.

So a good days work.

Andrew



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Thu May 14, 2020 6:18 pm

Hi

I received the two 10x Chinese microscope eyepieces for the 45Deg microscope bino-viewers AstroRod modified to have a 2" nosepiece..

These give me the same magnification as my 25mm Clave' Plossl.

I had a good view of the large hedge prom today. Looked much like Stefis image.

The input aperture is 19mm and my focal plane image 18mm.

It seems to reduce background light by the Suns edge. I only have to rotate for the PST etalon main reflection.

The best improvement is seeing the surface detail. Rather than scanning to catch it its there in the static view.

I asked on CN about a possible 18mm for a bit more magnification but the consensus was bino-viewing was better and they are right.

A good day.

Thanks to Rod.

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Sat May 23, 2020 9:09 am

Hi

The M180 has gone to my 'engineering facility' to be physically and optically lined up, have custom baffles added to the OTA, slide in to preserve night time use my engineer said, and have the PST etalon auto-collimated using a tilter for the scope.

Looking forward to the result.

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Tue Jun 23, 2020 8:44 pm

Hi

Had a play with this today.

Thinking about the baffling.

One thing I realised is that the Stage 2 Mod was developed on the Vixen VCM110 and the Collimating lens had to be moved right in as far as it would go for focus reach.

However in the Mak its 2cm inside the 200mm distance so Collimating 22mm beam instead of 20mm. Losing light. And allowing for intensity squared for detectability losing 1.46x.

My blocker tilter is just visible in the field with a few reflections so needs treating.

Drawn out a possible baffle option for the back.

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Fri Aug 14, 2020 10:19 pm

Hi

Been using the Mak180 recently with the PST Mod or a 90mm Triplet with a Quark Prom.

The PST is frustrating because of the etalon reflections.
I had a session filing out some plastic Moon filters holding the PST Re-focusser and the Omega blocking filter
and using my new Black3 my son bought me for Xmas.

The 90mm is a bit sharper especially the spicules.

Also I want more resolution.

So I have tried on the Mak180

a ES 2x Telecentric with a Combo Porm Quark

and

the PST Mod with a 2x Clave' long barlow.

Even through haze and clouds today they seem to be on a par for imaging proms.

I have also added a tilter to each set up and still get focus. Fortunatley I got some new Blue Fireball 1.25" extension tubes so I could position the PST collimator lens up inside the Mak180 to get the focal point in the right place.

Need a session auto-collimating the two etalons. And some clear weather of course!

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Mon Oct 05, 2020 10:18 pm

Hi

I have some questions about polarisers:

Are the normal ones supplied in 1.25" filters just linear polarisers?

I have 2. One is fixed as screwed in and one has the filter in a rotating mount.

I put one near the front of the PST Mod2. After the collimating lens and a Baader 35nm ERF and before the blocking filter. So its in the 20mm collimated beam. Fortunately no signs of heat affecting it. I toasted one after a 35nm in a refractor but it was in the converging beam. And the rotating one on an eyepiece after the re-focus lens and a Beloptik KG3 filter.

They seemed to work OK.

As the PST Etalon is tilted in use should I auto-collimate the front polariser to give minimum reflections off the front of the etalon? I assume it needs to be in line or at right angles to the tilt plane. I assume I put the etalon in its normal tuned postion on a black cloth pointing up at the sky and adjust the front polariser to give the minimum reflections?

Then in use with the front and back polarisers in line would I get minimum reflections and maximum throughput?

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Tue Oct 06, 2020 5:29 am

These are linear polarisers, a circular polariser (quarter wave plate) is what you need to shift reflections.


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Tue Oct 06, 2020 9:01 pm

Hi

So are the circular ones sold in 1.25" filters and how do you tell?

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Wed Oct 07, 2020 5:43 am

They tend to be camera filters, B&W is the best brand. They're called circular polariser rather than just polariser.


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Wed Oct 07, 2020 8:36 am

Hi

I did stock up with a few camera ones so need to look at.

The two I have did seem to work on dimming the chromosphere and seemed to reduce reflections.

Thanks. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Thu Oct 08, 2020 8:29 am

Hi Mark,

Should the circular polariser go between the etalon and the eyepiece?

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:39 am

Try it ahead and behind the etalon, see what works best. Just bear in mind it is an absorptive filter so think about energy load on it, this should always be minimal. so post any ERF filtration.


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:04 pm

Hi

I have placed a camera circular polariser after the re-focus lens and before the KG3 on the eyepiece.

Reduced PST reflections.

One quiet off axis from the Baader 35nm or Omega 1.5A Blocker but reasonably dim.

One just a little off the main image. Using a dew shield seemed to reduce it a bit. Some off-axis reflection?

The proms look like in the Quark Chromo. Flat illumination with black background.

Could see the main sunspot group well as dims the surface a bit.

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Sun Nov 22, 2020 5:08 pm

Hi

I have tried out tele-centric barlows on this before and tried my 2x ES Tele-extender and Quark Prom again and whilst it works the image scale is too large for my typical seeing.

So I thought can I use my -200mm and +200mm simple lenses for the PST2 Mod2 on here with my Quarks, after getting a similar idea to work on my 127mm Triplet.

To start with I put the -200mm on the front of a 2" diagonal in a aluminium! Barlow holder I had which happens to use a 25.4mm lens, the Quark Prom and then the +200mm in a Celestron Plastic Moon filter directly on the Clave' 25mm.

It worked but either dispersion or extra power there gave a larger image.

I went to a Baader T2 1.25" diagonal off my Baader Maxbright bino-viewers.

I am looking to get a 8mm collimated beam through my Quark Prom off axis to avoid mica faults on one sector.

Managed to get the -200mm 80mm in front of the fieldstop of the 25mm Clave' and again put the re-focus lens on the front of the 25mm Clave'.

This seemed to work but late in the day and seeing over the town below and with a low Sun was not very good.
Try out again later.

As the only way to use a Quark on the Mak180 at 1800mm FL which visually is OK most of the time its worth persevering with.

Cheers. Andrew.



AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:21 pm

Hi

I had a try of my Chromo Quark in a 'collimated' beam.

First I had to go to a Baader T2 1.25" diagonal to reach focus with the Quark and the Clave' 25mm eyepiece, and only just or close.

I could see sunspots and proms.

I put a PST Collimator lens on the Quark nosepiece and the re-focus lens on the eyepiece.

Reached focus OK.

There was a sweet spot in the centre half of the field.

Could see the spots and surface details. And the double prom near the two larger spots, 'skeleton' as normal in Chromo.

Tried my Prom Quark but some scatter from the mica faults.

Went to the PST Mod 2 and on the double prom could see more details with side projections off the top.
With a circular polariser added a bit more surface detail.

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:23 pm

That's the difference between collimated and telecentric - there's a sweet spot with collimated but not with telecentric.

Mark


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

AndiesHandyHandies
Im an EXPERT!
Im an EXPERT!
Posts: 338
Joined: Fri Mar 30, 2018 6:46 am
Location: Derbyshire UK
Has thanked: 354 times
Been thanked: 145 times

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies » Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:14 pm

Hi Mark,

I appreciate that.

My point is that the Mak180 at 1800mm FL is at the maximum I consider useable day to day. Just right with 25mm Clave' or 18mm equivalent little bino-viewers.

So trying to use a tele-centric barlow with a Quark at a minimum doubles the FL and is not useable.

At the moment limited to using the PST Mod2 on the Mak which is about 0.7A, maybe a bit better with the 1.5A Omega blocker. With the circular polariser I added recently for reflections a bit darker and chromosphere looks similar to Chromo Quark.

As the Chromo Quark luckily has PE mica as you pointed out it has no scatter like the Prom Quark or various reflections like the PST Mod2.

So I want to try to use it on the Mak180 at F10. As it pushes more light into the dim etalon to see if more detail is visible.
For the Prom Quark I bought a 100mm F5 Celestron/SW achromat and I use a reducer to get it down to F3.6ish to use with the built in Barlow to get a brighter image as the Band-width is greater for shorter FL scopes. And that seemed to work. A bigger DS60.

Tonight I had a play with diagonals, extension tubes and so on the get the Collimation lens 200mm in front of the Quark Combo Blocker, and a Re-focus lens at the back of the Etalon 200mm in front of the eyepiece focal stop.

A bit long and unwieldy so maybe not practical.

Even in the bodge above it visually looked OK.

Worth a play to compare with PST Mod dimmed for chromo-sphere.

The Quarks work on my 90mm F6.7 at 3x and 127mm F7.5 at 2x very well. All 1800mm FL or about there which I find acceptable for visual.

The same bodge on the 127mm looked OK as well with the Chromo and 150mm lens set for the F7.5.

Cheers. Andrew.



User avatar
marktownley
Librarian
Librarian
Posts: 29275
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:27 pm
Location: Brierley Hills, UK
Has thanked: 2212 times
Been thanked: 853 times
Contact:

Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley » Sun Nov 29, 2020 11:02 am

Tee hee hee! The pros and cons of solar mods :)


Image
http://brierleyhillsolar.blogspot.co.uk/
Solar images, a collection of all the most up to date live solar data on the web, imaging & processing tutorials - please take a look!

Post Reply