Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Had some clear sky today between clouds to try new configuration.

Rumak180 SVbonny UV-IR, Collimator, 35nm, PST Etalon, CPL, Re-focuser, KG3, Red 25A, 1.5A Omega Blocker, Binos

A bit deeper red.

Lost the pesky just off axis reflection. There is just one probably off the back of the Omega 1.5A blocker as its last.

Just checked and the CPL will pop in the 2" nosepiece after the Blocker tilter set up, so see if that solves that next time.

In the bino-viewers I am upside down and left-right reflected to Gong.

12.25 BST

11.00 (5.00) 10x Fantastic view of the biggish prom set. Three proms together getting higher, a Xmas tree and a Kiwi pecking at it. A small tower prom with flared top below.

09.00 Two dark spots inner one larger.

05.00 Triangle prom with splayed feet, Tuning fork leaning towards it, small prom parallel to the handle, V shaped prom

04.30 A dark elongated spot with a similar bright spot above it in line.

04.00 Little rounded top prom.

01.30 Swan necked dinosaur leaning down a bit.

I tried 12x PZO and Chinese 16X, 20X and 25xFor the first time). Good views of the 11.00 prom, but the 25x getting dim and fuzzy.

I was in giving up mode because of the reflections but seems a lot better now.

Some temperatures.

After 1.25" SVbonny UV-IR in a baffle is the nosepiece, which has a polished front, and contains the collimator lens then the 35nm Baader, was at 43C a reduction from 65C.

Looking up at the etalon 45C, seems consistent with the nosepiece temperature.

Front of the re-focus lens 23C

Look up the bino-viewer 33C

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley »

Good to hear progress is being made, and interesting about the temperatures.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Tried with the CLP at the back but more refections showing, so moved back to the middle.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Transmissions in the current set up.

From a Lunt description:

Our Filters

Energy Rejection Filter – The filtering of a Lunt system starts with a “true” energy rejection filter at the front of the system. This filter is unique to Lunt, and blocks both dangerous UV and IR. On smaller telescopes the ER filter is seen as a red looking filter installed at a slight angle (to remove internal ghosting). This is either installed at the front of the scope or just inside the main objective. On larger aperture telescopes, Lunt puts an additional IR blocking filter onto the front surface of the main objective. This will remove all heat load from the internal parts. Even on these large aperture systems we still provide the secondary red ERF just inside the objective.

Etalon – The next “filter” in the system is actually the etalon. The etalon was not designed as a safety filter however, it does have a very highly reflective surface that rejects most UV (T). Significantly, this would reject the majority of all IR if no prior IR filters were present.

BG Filter – The third filter is the Schott-designed BG (Blue Glass) filter. This filter is also created to absorb any residual IR.

Long Wave Pass Filter – The next filter is commonly called the diagonal “mirror”, however, it is not a mirror at all. Inside the diagonal is a Long Wave Pass filter. To begin with, it is designed to reflect a specific percentage of the 656nm wavelength. It sits at a 90 degrees angle and pass thru IR into the backing plate.

Blocking Filter – The next filter is the blocking filter. Again, this is not a safety filter unto itself. As the name implies, it blocks out-of-band wavelengths. Furthermore this allows the h-alpha to pass.

Red Glass Filter – The final filter is another piece of the red glass (without the IR coating). This glass blocks 100% of all UV.
Redundant Filters

People ask why we incorporate so many IR and UV filters in the system. The multitude of safety features we employ insures that our customers will be protected. They are protected even if they use our products improperly. For instance, should a person accidentally place a standard night time diagonal in the rear of a solar telescope, the view would be bright, but safe.

Because of the addition of multiple filters and safety features, a person simply standing in the sunlight will receive more ambient UV and IR radiation to the eye than when they are looking through one of our solar telescopes.

I have:

Component- %:- UV---- B---- G---- R---- H---- IR---- LIR---- Net------ Total Net---- Total Net
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Blocking----- Transmission

UV/IR------------- 100----------------------------- 100-------------50

35nm-------------- 100-- 100-- 100--- 65 ------- 100------------- 42--------- 92

Etalon------------- 100-- 100-- 100--- 90-------- 100------------ 10--------- 99


Post Etalon

UV/IR/KG3------- 100----------------------------- 100--- 100---- 50--------- 52

25A---------------- 100-- 100-- 100-------------------------------- 34--------- 84


Blocker----------------------------------- 1.5A---------------------------------------------- 0.25%

Blocker and one Comb---------------- 0.7A----------------------------------------------- 0.13%

With the two ERFs there is 8% of incident light on the etalon. Equivalent to a 25mm aperture telescope.

If both the ERFs fail there is 16% of incident light falling on the blocker. Equivalent of a 36mm aperture telescope.

Its just what the Blocker and the one Comb it lets through which determines the light seen by the eye or CCD. These 'mask' anything which has gone on before.
Peter Drew has used a PST mod in a 6" scope with no ERF for years.
Rogerio Marcom uses a 8" Zeiss with only a substantial alloy baffle and no ERF.
These work as the Etalon and Blocker only transmit 0.13%. Provided the compnonents do not fail of course.

Whilst my SVbonny and 35nm may have a short life the Etalon for UV(T) IR, KG3-LIR/UV/IR and RED 25A for UV B G give me redundancy as in the Lunt above.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Went for a SH Baader 4X TZ2 barlow yesterday. Hope it works on this scope as well as the refractors for the Quarks.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

First solar for some time as been off ill away from home.

There is a SVbonny 1.25 UV-IR mounted under the step in the baffle tube now. Waiting for a 1.25" parfocal ring to go round it with reflective finish.
Bought some ceramic insulating paint additive to use on front facing surfaces.

2" Baader 35nm with 1.25" extender on front as a stop.
2" KG3

Baader TZ 2X

Prom Quark

40mm Celestron

Hot. Sunny broken cloud and light cloud. Poor seeing. Light wind.

Temperatures:

Front of Secondary 38.8
Corrector 26.7

Back of the UV-IR and holder 44

Front of 35nm 50.4

Back of T2 diagonal 66

Back of Quark 66.4

Up eyepiece 35.2

Back plate in shadow 28.9

Focusser body 26.1

Can see the proms on Gong. No surface details.

Cheers. Andrew


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley »

Glad your're back home and observing!


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I had the PST mod out today with the bino-viewers.

I have had spring cleaning and 'Black3' session with the 'Lunt assured' setup.

I have a couple of reflections, fortunately on the same side, so rotating gets them out of the way.

On the other side I have a nice black background.

I coulds see the large prom pair nicely.

Mottling across the surface.

I could see the one spot and a filament near it.

Also the bright area near the edge.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I went round to see Rodastro with the T-2 to try on the telescope it was designed to work on, just a 6" F15 Zeiss.

Rod imaged with my Quark Chromo and T-2 with Baader35nm ERF. He said the image had a straight band across the middle. The image scale was a bit larger than he images at, about F22.5. On the Mak I am working at F20 so give it a try.

Cheers. Andrew


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Despite the heat 29C and just a couple of small proms on Gong I had a session with the PST mod.

As I have put a tilted 1.25" UV-IR in the middle of the baffle tube I decided I could try removing the Baader 35nm after the collimating lens.

This removed the off axis reflections I had. Apart from one close by which is always there, I assume its in the etalon.

So I assume they came from the bright reflection off the front of the etalon reflecting back off the Baader which was tilted.

Reduced the contrast on the surface though.
I tried a Baader 7nm instead of the red 25A but it had a blue-green leak. Also it and the Baader 35nm after the red 25A but no improvement on surface detail.

The Blocker which was loose in a 2" nose-piece is now screwed into a T2 extension tube turned out to clear the tilter. I can now have another play at tilting the 1.5A blocker.

Could see the proms on Gong.

Mak180, Tilted UV-IR, Collimator lens at -200mm, PST Etalon, Circular polariser, re-focusser lens, UV-IR&KG3, Red 25A, 1.5A blocker, Bino-viewers, 10x.

The back of the UV-IR was at 45C and the metal front of the PST Mod 32C and the collimator lens 34C. The temperature up the eyepiece 32-37C.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I had a session in cyclops mode today.

Took a while to adapt the T2 based tilter for the blocking filter to 2" fittings at both ends to go in the diagonal.

UV-IR, Collimator, Etalon, CPL, Re-focussser, KG3 and Red 25A in the nose of the diagonal, 1.5A Omega, Baader 7nm, Clave' 25mm.

Sunny light wind with a bit of haze round the sun.

I tried without the 7nm to start with. Light red with some scatter.

The 7nm reduced the scatter and some light off axis reflections.

The larger prom looked like Virgins rocket ship landing on the moon.
A few small proms.
Could see dark spots and bright lines in the top group.
Mottling across the surface.

Now I have the blocker screwed in I will have another go at tilting it for best detail.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Images Rod took with my Quark Chromo at F15 and with the TZ-2 at F30.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/513 ... f992_m.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/513 ... f70f_m.jpg

What do you think?

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Why are the images smaller then from the email original I used?

Andrew


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Last edited by AndiesHandyHandies on Wed Jul 21, 2021 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley »

First one looking ok, second one way off band...


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Ordered a Female T2 to Male SCT adapter to move to 3 'etalon' set up. Diagonal only for illustrative purposes.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/513 ... 5d1b_b.jpg

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley »

Cool pic of the assembly!


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Did some tests on this today.

Tried a 2x modded ED Rodastro leant me with the TZ2 and Quark Chromo Combo but too much magnification for visual.
Tried the bare TZ2 and had a very nice view of the large prom. This has the darkest background of all my etalons.

With the Quark Prom Combo it was too bright because of the disc.

The PST Mod showed the large prom brighter of course. I do have a reflection off the front of the 1.5A Omega Comb filter but this can be rotated. And a little diffuse reflection off the eye of axis due to the tilt. Same when I added the 1.5A to the TZ2/Chromo but was too dark to use.

Interestingly the PST mode showed more contrast between light and dark in the large spot group and filaments across the disc not apparent in the TZ2 and Chromo.

RodAstro has lent me a Mak 0.67x reducer to try with the Quarks.

And I have my off-axis pick out to try on the Quark Prom to avoid mica damage.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by marktownley »

I've been impressed you even got some sun Andrew, i've been sat under the 'Midlands cloud' for nearly 2 weeks now...


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

I had a play yesterday.

PST Mod.

I moved the Baader 7nm from the eyepiece to in front of the Omega 1.5A comb filter. Removed the reflections from the Omega, less stuff getting through.
Apart from one faint off axis reflection much darker now. I find it works with the 25mm Clave' at 72x OK

And had another try with the Baader TZ2 and the Combo Chromo Quark. I used the TZ2 with a 40mm Celestron at 90x.

The 90mm triplet and 4.2x Quark Chromo are working at 2520mm. I often use it with the 32mm Meade at 78.25x.

A nice day tomorrow so I might get to compare them. Get the Mak180 on an Ioptron mount. More convenient for use with the bino-viewers.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Had the Mak180 PST Mod out yesterday on the Ioptron mount with the bino-viewers. Much better now to have the bino-viewers level all the time.

With 12x PZOs at 86x had a lovely view of the surface details. Nice black background. Better than the Chromo Quark on Baader TZ2 which was under-whelming in comparison.

RodAstro has been reading up on Zeiss and he says the PZOs are specially selected ones to work well with a flat field.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Reducing reflection problems.

I have found by accident that the filters should go from wider bandwidth to lower.

I found that a 35nm in front of the PST etalon was giving me reflection issues. So I went to a UV-IR instead as the first filter.

Also I has a 7nm on the eyepiece as using a 25A as a blue leakage blocker so some near red leaage still. And was getting bad reflections back of the Omega 1.5A comb filter. So I move the 7nm infront of the 1.5A and reduced that considerably.

I have:

1.25" UV-IR on an added push in baffle. Visual passed only and reflections invisible.

Collimating lens.

PST Etalon reflections pass back out . . .

Re-focusing lens

KG3 absorbs long IR for eye safety, and reduces noise in CCDs according to Mark T

Red 25A for absorbing blue leakage in PST Etalon

CPL to reduce internal reflections

Baader 7nm reflect out of band scatter and light and yellow and green leakage in 25A

Omega 1.5A Comb filter. Reflects unwanted combs.

Next time I am out I need to clock the PST set up with my bino-viewers for linear polarisation tuning.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Messing with the UV-IR filter stuffed up the main baffle tube and baffling round it. Found the filter is not blackened so black Sharpie on the filter edge and B2 & B3 on the filter holder. I have been using a parfocal ring round the filter as a heat reflector, black anodising turned off but I want to baffle the filter better. I realised a T2 1.25" adapter would fit as well with the 1.25" bit acting as a baffle.

Took the small ring out of the filter and put it in the front of the T2 adapter. Put a wider ring from another filter now, from one of my cheap '20mm stops' in it. More B2 & B3.

!!! Transfer lens does not work as front element vignetted by tube in front.

Cheers. Andrew.


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Re: Santel M180 F10 Rumak Maksutov first light

Post by AndiesHandyHandies »

Hi

Sun playing hide and seek behind the clouds today.

Crisp autumn day with clear sky and light wind.

Tried the 7nm last after Bobs Comb filter but no great difference so put back in front of it, so filters go from less reflective/ absorptive to most.

Later when settled had no real visible reflections and nice black background. Like the Quark Chromo.

Early on had nice views of todays proms.

Looking from the front and getting the Sun on axis the secondary baffles down to the bottom of the primary baffle. But the sun is off-set in the bino eyepieces so some mechanical work needs doing at the back, or alignment as well?

Calculating the stop size for 20mm field illuminated from the 60mm secondary gives 26.36mm. The 1.25" filter retaining rings are near 26mm so I m about ideally baffled. The sun just fits in the field so when centred should not be 'touching the sides. But the limited sweet spot means observing with the sun off axis especially for proms.

There really.

Cheers. Andrew.


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