Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

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Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi all

finally I found some sunrays. The seeing was not as it should be for a first light, but I had to get it, the first light.

Mixed results. Less good as a PST mod, lack of contrast, uneven field, difficult to get on band, very sensitiv on dust mots, good I had my new flat film ready

LUNTSUN_20042014_134945.jpg
LUNTSUN_20042014_135343.jpg
LUNTSUN_20042014_142445.jpg
LUNTSUN_20042014_142445_color.jpg
LUNTPROM_20042014_140232.jpg
LUNTPROM_20042014_141554.jpg


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by marktownley »

Interesting first results, the first 4 are definitely off band. What scope were you using walter?


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Valery »

Hello Walter.

Some real (1) and possible (2 and 3) reasons of this experiment failure.

1. The etalon works in a significantly convergent light beam instead of a native F/109 the etalon was designed for.

2. Uneven illumination is due to incorrect (for your location altitude) etalon performance and therefore you need to
tilt the etalon.

3. If you can't come to the band, this mean that the etalon will work only at higher barometric pressure and lower temperature -
at lower altitude and may be during cold winter in your area.

Let me know the altitude you are living at and what is your typical barometric pressure range (lowest and highest).


My advice: forget this mod. This is for temperature controlled etalons like DayStar or Solar Spectrume or for newer Lunt solid temperature
controlled etalons - all with narrower band wide and unnecessity of the tilt to come to the band.


Valery.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark, Hi Valery


thank you very much for your Input.

@Mark For the tests I used my TAK 102 f/8 . Yes they are in the redwing , tilting the etalon with the turning weel did not change much. In fact the null position showed at least some Ha structure.


@Valery

well that was at f/32, I can get up to f/40 but will not Change much. I tried f/24 and that was worse

Tilting the etalon did not really improve much. Fact is that I did not reach the blue wing

We are living here at 750 m above sealevel, temperature yesterday was some 18 °C, The usual baromatric pressure is 950 to 1050

I'm not giving up :)


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Carbon60 »

It will be interesting to see how this progresses, Walter.

Stu.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Stuart

thank you very much for the motivation


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark, Hi Valery


thank you very much for your Input.

@Mark For the tests I used my TAK 102 f/8 . Yes they are in the redwing , tilting the etalon with the turning weel did not change much. In fact the null position showed at least some Ha structure.


@Valery

well that was at f/32, I can get up to f/40 but will not Change much. I tried f/24 and that was worse

Tilting the etalon did not really improve much. Fact is that I did not reach the blue wing

We are living here at 750 m above sealevel, temperature yesterday was some 18 °C, The usual baromatric pressure is 950 to 1050

I'm not giving up :)

Walter, it seems you need to go high in the mountains, say, at 1500m and up. :^))

To see if you can stay in band, test your LS50F in it's native position (in a front of the scope) and see if you can move the CWL from the red wing to the bue wing.
If yes and all is OK with the etalon, then the problem is in the telecentric rig and in too much widening of the band wide due to converge of the light beam.

And one more thought. May be you are at the blue wing partially capturing the CWL? In this case go to lower altitude and colder air.
Last edited by Valery on Mon Apr 21, 2014 10:48 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

thank you very much for your Inputs. Here the Setup
LS50F_TZ4_mounted.jpg

as the LUNT filter is new and virtually unused I guess it is in top condition. But I'll have a go up front the TAK and we will see.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Derek Klepp »

Got to try these things Walter otherwise we,ll never reach Solar nirvana.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:
Fact is that I did not reach the blue wing
This mean that THIS etalon is not suited for using at your elevation. It is suited better for lower altitudes may be even for sea level.

This is a reason why I asked you if your LS50F for sale (I can buy it for work at seal level where I am living) and I have a LS50F which is better suited for higher altitude. So, lets talk about this in private. May be we will help each other.

The rules:

1. if the air-spaced etalon works fine at a sea level, then it will work worser at higher altitudes and sometime even can not reach blue wing (depends of altitude).
2. If an etalon works fine at higher altitude, it will work worser at lower altitude, because it will require too much tilt and will exhibits banding due to such a tilt.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Cschur »

Walter, I can see way too many ellerman bombs for this to be on band. still a very nice set of images!

Chris


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Chris

thank you very much. Yes that is top right. We are on the red wings only. That is one of the problem.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

an interesting Point, just swapping the filters. My filter has 7 spacers and yours ? The older ones used to have only 5. Please drop me an email


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Derek Klepp wrote:Got to try these things Walter otherwise we,ll never reach Solar nirvana.
Hi Derek

thank you so much. I'm with you. Off we go direction Nirwana ;)


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Marcello »

Hi Walter, that's a very interesting set-up, it seems a hard work but very promising

Have a question: do you need also an ERF in front of the tube?


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Marcello

thank you very much. Yes you need an ERF. I did put a D-ERF up front the TAK and took out the original ERF of the filter


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Marcello »

Thanks Walter


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by MapleRidge »

Hi Walter...

Very interesting filter setup and images form the first light. Lots of wing activity with the Ellerman bombs. Hope you manage to make the system work more to your liking.

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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Brian

thank you very much for your motivation


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Carbon60 »

Maybe a silly question, Walter, but could the weight of the BF diagonal and camera be adversely tilting the etalon, or preventing it from tilting properly? The torque generated between the front mounting adapter and the rear adaptor, created by the cantilevered rear weight, might be preventing the thumb wheel from properly jacking the gap which normally facilitates tilting of the etalon.

Just a thought.

Stu.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Stuart

thank you very much for your thoughts. I certainly have to check that. Exept of the two first extensions the parts are screwed on, so I do not expect sag. As for the tilting of the etalon it selve, it is freely mounted inside the housing not touching or beein torqued by any force to the rear and front adapter. Basically it hangs in the air ;-)


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Carbon60 »

Hi Walter,

No problem. It was just a thought.

I wasn't sure how the etalon was mounted, exactly.


Stu.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Stuart

thank you very much. I did a quick run today mounting the same filter up front of the same scope. What I couls see is, that the Etalon Comes on band and that it showes what a lunt50 showes, a uneven field. So it is not a matter of sealevel or higher altitude


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Valery »

What Mark Wagner wrote about rear mounted filters at the CN Solar forum.

"Rear mounted filters. The bandwidth of these filters depends on at focal length they are being used at.
If you have a.5Ang filter at F/40 and you use it at F/20 the filters bandwidth will be closer to .9Ang. "

Note, that LS50F etalon is 0.7A at F/108 ! So, at F/30 or so it will be not better than 1A.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by marktownley »

Hmmm, I see the point you're making Valery.

There's no easy way to cheat extra performance out of these systems is there...


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery, Hi MArk

thank you very much for your comments. So we have to pack the LUNT50 in between a collimating system to get decent results , haven't we ?


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Valery, Hi MArk

thank you very much for your comments. So we have to pack the LUNT50 in between a collimating system to get decent results , haven't we ?
Yes, but if you need them to work at 100% potential

1. real 0.7A
2. maximal sharpness (no spherical aberration, no astigmatism, no field curvature) with Shtrehl >97% for full disk
3. full disk with prominences in Ha in the eyepiece (with binoviewer too)
4. no need to buy any ERF or D-ERF
5. have a 0.5A with no wings, in 5 min (for large scale imaging)
6. Extremely compact

Then this must be specifically correctly designed and made 100% according to the design. Yes, this cost it's money, but well worth it.
Even in our far not rich country, some amateurs who saw it's work, bought it next day. You all already saw the images taken through
such a system.


Valery.


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Re: Appenzellersun, 20th april LUNT LS50F/TZ4 first light

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

thank you very much for your Points. Yeah, we know by now how fantastic pics you make with your kit. What does the correktion consist off. What is to do ?


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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