Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

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Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Hi there folks,

Anybody ever seen any transmission curves (they can share) for the blocking filters in Daystar Ha filters? I'm curious what they look like. I have had a google but nothing is jumping out at me...

Mark


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

if only my UV/VIS had a better resolution. You would have the results withhin minutes ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

If you can get coarse results it would be good walter. From what i can see on my Quark there are 2 filters - the silver (ITF I presume) on the telecentric assembly, and then a second filter that look 'orangey' on the etalon assembly. If you can get a rough shape for these curves would be good.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

I'll have a go with the Quark chromosphere and the 0,5 SE Quantum ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Thank you walter :)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark


well I gave it a try. As feared, my UV/VIS can not resolve below 10 A, however the plots are still interesting. The Quantum filter blocks too much of the beam, so no transmission at all detected, the pure etalon of the Quark has a leak, which is most probably blocked by the ERF/Blocking filter unit up front

quark_quantum.jpg
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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Very interesting Walter, thanks!

So the Quark curve above is through the 'etalon' section.

The silver filter on the telecentric unit, that would just seem to have a really narrow transmission at 656nm then?

Much food for thought ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

Yes, it is a pitty that I have only very limited light input. I just can't measure it


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Thanks Walter, this gives me something to work with...


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Ok, so, I can't help myself. It's that time of year when i'm on holiday and the skies are cloudy, and you know what i'm like so I just couldn't help myself but start taking things apart ;)

I decided to have a look at the little silver filter in the end of the quark and unscrewed it from it's cell to see what we had. Lo and behold it's an old friend from Andover; their 656FS02-12.5. This is a widely available filter you'll find about 3/4 the way down the list here http://www.andcorp.com/products/bandpas ... 600-699nm/

Infact do a google of the filter code and it seems this is something Walter came across in his SPV, and where there was quite an enlightening discussion that took place on CN about this too nearly 10 years ago... http://www.cloudynights.com/topic/38093-damaged-filter/

I made a plot of its transmission using the CSV data on the Andover page

Imageandover by Mark Townley, on Flickr

And some pics...

ImageP1110771 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

ImageP1110770 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

ImageP1110769 by Mark Townley, on Flickr

So, with Walters plot and this info gives us some interesting possibilities...


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

you devil, you really took it apart. thanks for sharing. Din't you notice any sort of pressure / underpressure ?


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

This is only the filter on the end of the telecentric unit, this is not under pressure, there is just a little retaining ring to hold it in place. I would not take the 'etalon' end apart as this is under pressure and a sealed unit.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

thank you very much for the information. Now I understand and see a way to do double stack on the LUNT 100 without the prefilter, which means a lot more light and shorter exposure times :hamster: :hamster: :hamster:


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

thank you very much for the information. Now I understand and see a way to do double stack on the LUNT 100 without the prefilter, which means a lot more light and shorter exposure times :hamster: :hamster: :hamster:
Exactly ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

thank you very much for the information. Now I understand and see a way to do double stack on the LUNT 100 without the prefilter, which means a lot more light and shorter exposure times
Hi Walter and Mark,

How much more light if to remove the Andover filter?

Merry Christmas


Valery


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

I don't know, but I will measure it in the coming days


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Don't know yet Valery. The only thing we have to watch out for here is the heating of the etalon through too much energy reaching it - the etalon will shift 1A per 9.4c of temperature, it could drift very quickly if we are not careful. I was thinking of trying a Baader D-ERF upfronnt, and then a Baader 7nm Ha on the nosepiece, even combined they have more transmission than the Andover.

Too much energy would be really bad as the etalon components are all in a sealed chamber, and heating this with too much expansion could make for a cracking experience ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

marktownley wrote: Too much energy would be really bad as the etalon components are all in a sealed chamber, and heating this with too much expansion could make for a cracking experience ;)
:lol: Hi Mark

I'm a specialist in that field. Last days I fried a 850 nm filter


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your detailed explanations. I am now waiting the beginning of the warm season of the 2015.
Then I will re-configure some my telescopes and etalons and blockers to reach the best performance of them.

Valery.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

Neo wrote:
Do you have some kind of optical testing bench for your telescopes Valery?
http://www.rcopticalsystems.com/telescopes/index.html

Find "Optics", then " Ion Milling" click on it. This is about our optics. I even don't remember how many test benches
we do have - may be 5, may be 6 or 7???


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

thanks for the link. Why is the home page button not working ?


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Valery

thanks for the link. Why is the home page button not working ?
Hi Walter,

I don't really know. All the links on that site work. And this is not our site - the site is for RCOS telescopes, we supplied the optics for their scopes
for decade or longer.


Valery.
Last edited by Valery on Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Thank you Valery


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Valery

I don't know, but I will measure it in the coming days

Hi Modders

here a measurement of only the prefilter of the Quark, it takes away almost 85% of the incoming light
quarkvorfilter_29122014.jpg
quarkvorfilter_29122014.jpg (49 KiB) Viewed 4899 times


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Thanks Walter. This matches with what i've been finding. Did some 'experimenting' today using the Quark without it and 'other' ERF techniques, seems to work very well. Certainly a good project to work on in the new year with a higher sun...


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

marktownley wrote:Thanks Walter. This matches with what i've been finding. Did some 'experimenting' today using the Quark without it and 'other' ERF techniques, seems to work very well. Certainly a good project to work on in the new year with a higher sun...
Can you be more specific, Mark? What have you tested as the substitution for the original Quark pre-filter? And what the results in each case?

Thanks,

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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:

Hi Modders

here a measurement of only the prefilter of the Quark, it takes away almost 85% of the incoming light
Thanks a lot, Walter!

Definitely a food to think about. I am sure I already know what will I do. However, may be Mark will add some ideas?


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Valery wrote: may be Mark will add some ideas?
My mind is full of ideas ;)

If I had something like a lunt 100, then I would be removing the andover from the quark and using it in the end of the blocking filter to double stack to get more light through and shorten the exposure time.

However I dont have a Lunt, so I am adopting a different approach: Using a 'naked' PST etalon in the eyepiece holder (and so in the telecentric output beam) it is possible to double stack the quark, the pst etalon cutting photospheric leakage in the Ha wings and and so increasing contrast.

Imagesingle-stack-double-stack-comparison by Mark Townley, on Flickr

This reduces light throughput, and increases exposure time which is never good. So, removing the andover and using a Baader DERF on the objective and Baader 7nm on the nose of the diagonal, and also the blocker only element from a coronado blocker brings the exposure time short again. Note, this is only used for imaging. This seems to keep the heat out of the daystar and doesn't appear to have any drift of the cwl. Just need winter to go so I can carry on with the experiments ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

marktownley wrote:
swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

thank you very much for the information. Now I understand and see a way to do double stack on the LUNT 100 without the prefilter, which means a lot more light and shorter exposure times :hamster: :hamster: :hamster:
Exactly ;)

Hi Mark


here we go. My first double stack LUNT100/Quark without the pre filter, 0,5 reducer on the nose of the quark
DSLUNTQUARK_REDUCER_132355_ps_bw.jpg
DSLUNTQUARK_REDUCER_132355_ps-treated.jpg

We cartainly do not have a problem of too much light

Exposure 16ms, Gamma 598, gain 343, Histogram 594, 26 fps, 469 Frames, stacked 62


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by grimble_cornet »

WOW - now that is interesting to another guy with an LS100 and a Quark :seesaw

Just to be clear Walter.........

You are removing the screw-off pre-filter from the Quark (as Mark described) and adding the Quark to the blocking filter of the LS100?

I have had some success by removing the blocking filter from the LS 100 and adding the Quark via diagonal fitted with a UV/IR cut filter but, as you suggest, it does increase exposure times significantly.
The image below was taken with 42ms exposure at gamma=1200 using a x0.5 on the Grasshopper nose-piece in pretty poor conditions; but at least it proved that it works.
Quark and LS100.jpg
Lunt 100 Quark-4 Grasshopper3 2014 0312 1153 ut coloured 600px.jpg
Lunt 100 Quark-4 Grasshopper3 2014 0312 1153 ut coloured 600px.jpg (344 KiB) Viewed 3767 times


.

.



.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mike

thank you very much. Yes I did as you described. On the nose of the Quark I added my 0,5 reducer


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Good results chaps!

I would go with the 0.5 reducer on the nose of the camera rather than the quark, you will get the same fov on the camera chip (roughly) but should get a tighter bandpass.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

thank you very much. Yes that is what I thought too and tried of course first. No presentable results. Then I noticed, that's the wrong way ;)


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by marktownley »

Ahhhh, fair enough! I just need some clear skies on the weekends now to carry on the quark experiment, alas this is not happening just yet...


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Mark

just take a plane. Sunshine over hear on thuesday (predicted though ? )


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Valery »

swisswalter wrote:Hi Mark

thank you very much. Yes that is what I thought too and tried of course first. No presentable results. Then I noticed, that's the wrong way ;)
Hi Walter!

VERY strange! When I use the Quark with very fast telescopes (f/5-6) the image contrast is POOR.
As slower the telescope I use the Quark with, as better the contrast. This includes also a DS mode.

So, I believe, Mark is correct. A 0.5x reducer should be used at the camera nose.

I use such a combination in my 150mm scope (LS50F + Quark + 0.5x) with very good results.

Valery.


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Valery

thank you very much. It is just not my experience


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Brett »

Walter, not on the topic of the thread, but if I may quickly throw in a question here. What spectrometer are you using? Can you perhaps provide me with a link to the model?


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Brett

it is a simple Varian Carry #1. Two beams, running from 800 nm to 250 nm. It can't resolve better then 5A, but it does a great job for me


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by Brett »

Thanks Walter (not that I doubted your results). Just curious. A pretty expensive unit!


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Re: Daystar Filters Blocker Transmission Curves

Post by swisswalter »

Hi Brett

thank you very much. I did get it used. So there was not much money involved


Only stardust in the wind, some fine and some less fine scopes, filters and adapters as well. Switzerland 47 N, 9 E, in the heart of EUROPE :)

from 7 am - 7 pm http://www.nanosys.ch

from 7.01 pm - 6.59 am http://www.wastronomiko.com some times vice versa ;)
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