New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

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thesmiths
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New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by thesmiths »

I've been playing around my Skywatcher 80ED telescope the last few weeks, experimenting with different configurations. Here is an earlier version: viewtopic.php?t=42066. Reusing some of the parts from a different project (viewtopic.php?t=42189), I was able to build a new "dovetail SHG" based around the 80ED. Here are some of the photos of the new build:

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This design is based around four ADM Vixen universal dovetail bars: two 14 inch long, one 11 inch long, and one 7 inch long. The telescope is mounted on one 14-inch bar using the included Skywatcher tube rings. The second 14-inch bar is attached to the first with four 30mm long M6 bolts and nuts. The 11-inch bar is attached to the far end with a single 16mm long M6 bolt and nut; this bar holds the grating using an ADM Vixen dovetail plate adaptor (VDPA). The 7-inch bar is mounted perpendicular on the second 14-inch bar with a single 16mm long M6 bolt and nut; this bar holds the camera and imaging lens on a second VDPA. The side of the 7-inch bar is in contact with the end of the 11-inch bar to prevent either from rotating (since both are held with a single bolt). The little 4-inch dovetail bar at the front of the telescope is just a "foot" so that I could assemble things on the floor without it tipping over.

The collimator is a Pentax Takumar 150mm f/4 lens. There is a short M42 extension tube on the lens, followed by an M42 to T2 adapter, then a short T2 extension tube. A ZWO T2 to 1.25-inch filter adapter is screwed into the T2 extension tube. The quartz slit (9 micron wide by 12mm long) is mounted in a newly designed double 1.25-inch filter cell (there is now a second copper disk behind the first to block stray light from the edges of the quartz chip). The collimator assembly looks similar to this one:

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The collimator assembly is then attached to a 50mm long T2 extension tube and then a 2-inch nosepiece. This fits into an Altair 70mm 2-inch extension tube, which then attaches to the telescope focuser. The advantage of this design is the telescope focuser only has to support the weight of the extension tubes and the collimator lens, not the whole weight of the spectroheliograph. The ADM dovetail bars are very rigid and do not show any flexure. Also, rotating the collimator at the 2-inch nosepiece allows for the possibility of easy adjustment of the slit orientation.

This design is quite similar to the setup for my 106mm APO triplet, a significantly heavier telescope:

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After comparing the two setups, for the 80ED doublet and the 106mm APO triplet, the parts for the 80ED design could easily be adapted to a typical 4-inch f/7 telescope with only minor adjustments to take into account the larger diameter of the telescope tube and greater weight of the telescope. Specifically, the second 14-inch dovetail bar should be attached on top of the first one (rather than underneath) to raise the level of the camera and to allow the mount to grip onto the first dovetail which supports the telescope.

You might ask, where is the box to block out stray light? I decided to try something radically simple and just but a black cotton bag over the end of with the exposed optical elements. This worked surprisingly well, despite the black cotton not being particularly thick. I could even adjust the focus of the two camera lenses through the black cotton. Eventually, I added a second, slightly larger, black cotton bag and this made the inside very dark. I added a piece of black foamboard to the collimator to block out sunlight coming directly down the axis of the telescope, and also to keep the cotton from interfering with the light paths.

The preliminary results have been quite good. For the initial trials I used a pair of 150mm f/4 lenses, a 1800 l/mm ruled diffraction grating (50mm square) and a ZWO 183MM camera. Below are some "first light" images in H-alpha and Ca-H. The results with the 80ED are not quite as good as with the 106mm triplet, but you need to look carefully at full resolution to really notice the difference. The difference between using a 1800 l/mm and 2400 l/mm grating wasn't as much as I would have thought (I can go into the reasons for this elsewhere). Overall, I'm impressed with the performance of the 80ED telescope for this purpose (it has a good reputation for solar work) and most of this build could be done in a day with the parts described here. The only real "machining" required are methods to hold the rotatable grating and to hold the camera and imaging lens, both of which are attached to a VDPA. I mainly used scavenged parts for these but 3D printing or real machine-shop parts could be used.

H-alpha 80ED SHG. Baader 2-inch 35nm H-alpha filter at the telescope focuser to act as ERF. Stack of 14 of 20 scans. 1.6ms exposure, zero gain. 386 fps, 21x SR scan in DEC.  5 Sept 2023.
H-alpha 80ED SHG. Baader 2-inch 35nm H-alpha filter at the telescope focuser to act as ERF. Stack of 14 of 20 scans. 1.6ms exposure, zero gain. 386 fps, 21x SR scan in DEC. 5 Sept 2023.
050923-Ha-600mm-1800g-stack14.jpg (1.27 MiB) Viewed 1433 times
Ca-H 80ED SHG with 60mm aperture mask. GSO IR block filter (KG3) as ERF. Stack of 20 of 27 scans. 4ms exposure, gain 80 (17%). 241 fps, 13x SR scan in DEC. 4 Sept 2023.
Ca-H 80ED SHG with 60mm aperture mask. GSO IR block filter (KG3) as ERF. Stack of 20 of 27 scans. 4ms exposure, gain 80 (17%). 241 fps, 13x SR scan in DEC. 4 Sept 2023.
040923-CaH-60mm-1800g-stack20.jpg (1.15 MiB) Viewed 1433 times
Last edited by thesmiths on Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by thesmiths »

Below is a photo of the 80ED telescope with the black cotton double bag covering the SHG elements. This worked surprisingly well. The bags have drawstrings to help close the open end. This particular cotton was quite thin; if better material were used, probably a single layer would be enough. In my larger SHG, I have used thermal blackout curtain material, which is very opaque and also white on one side and black on the other.

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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by thesmiths »

Below is a Ca-K SHG image taken with the 80ED. I used a 60mm aperture mask and no IR blocking filter. The relatively small aperture and long focal ratio (f/10) suggested that no ERF would be required. But it seems the GSO IR blocking filter (KG3) did not significantly reduce the exposure time near Ca-K/H (unlike near H-alpha where it reduces the light throughput significantly).

I imaged much later in the day than normal (2:30pm local time vs 9am) so the quality is a little lower as a result.

Ca-K SHG. 4ms exposure, gain 80 (17%). 241 fps, 13x SR scan in DEC. Stack of 10 frames. 7 Sept 2023.
Ca-K SHG. 4ms exposure, gain 80 (17%). 241 fps, 13x SR scan in DEC. Stack of 10 frames. 7 Sept 2023.
070923-CaK-60mm-600mm-stack10.jpg (1.11 MiB) Viewed 1355 times


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by marktownley »

These are excellent Doug!

I'm amazed you got the dewshield off the ED80 - mine is stuck fast :lol:


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

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marktownley wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 6:35 pm I'm amazed you got the dew shield off the ED80
If you wobble it back and forth it does come off eventually. I used to keep it on but it's actually fairly heavy so it throws the balance off just enough to be annoying. It's also easier to use an arbitrary aperture mask with it off (instead of just the hole in the plastic cap).


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

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thesmiths wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:16 pm If you wobble it back and forth it does come off eventually. I used to keep it on but it's actually fairly heavy so it throws the balance off just enough to be annoying.
I need to revisit it for removal then, I will adopt a wiggle when removing ;)

I know what you mean, when I use mine as part of my 'travelling kit' it adds excess weight and throws balance...


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

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marktownley wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:20 pm I know what you mean, when I use mine as part of my 'travelling kit' it adds excess weight and throws balance...
I found some cotton bags on Amazon UK "Bronta Mill Plain black 100% cotton eco friendly drawstring/stuff bags". I got the small, medium and large sizes (in black), since I didn't know exactly how big they would be. The medium one fits nicely over the SHG optics and I put the big one over that if I want it to be really dark (not always necessary). I found the small one made a nice front lens cover for the 80ED for storage purposes and also to block out sun while it was pointed at the sun (maybe white extra small would be better as a replacement lens cover -- I'll try that one out and let you know!).


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by rsfoto »

Hi Douglas,

Very interesting. How is the quality of the images when not covering the rear end. Does stray light cause problems?


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

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rsfoto wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:39 pm How is the quality of the images when not covering the rear end. Does stray light cause problems?
If the end is totally open to the sky, then there is too much direct light at the camera lens. At a minimum, it needs some kind of "tent" to shield the camera and the grating from direct light. But a single piece of cloth laid over the top is enough to at least see something.


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Re: New 80ED SHG -- simplified dovetail design

Post by thesmiths »

thesmiths wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:54 am
marktownley wrote: Fri Sep 08, 2023 7:20 pm I know what you mean, when I use mine as part of my 'travelling kit' it adds excess weight and throws balance...
I found some cotton bags on Amazon UK "Bronta Mill Plain black 100% cotton eco friendly drawstring/stuff bags". I found the small one made a nice front lens cover for the 80ED for storage purposes and also to block out sun while it was pointed at the sun.
Note to Mark: the extra small is too small. The small size is good for covering the front objective (with the dew shield removed).


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